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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:07 pm 
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Jazzbutcher wrote:
I have recorded vinyl onto my computer in this format & it's difficult to tell the difference as my amplifier does exactly the same as it would with any signal amplifies it.

I haven't ripped any vinyl yet (what are you using?) but for CDs I use FLAC for the simple reason that it's easier for me to fill in missing metadata and can attach higher resolution artwork. Most artwork I have is 1500x1500 and looks better than 600x600 when using my 60" tele as a monitor. I think WAV has some metadata limitations, but may actually be sonically better. It's something I may have to revisit. But any decision I make regarding formats may need to wait as I would like to get into DSD formats. However, I can't name a car that will play it. I think most cars will play WAV, but mine will play FLAC because I had the CODEC installed to do it.
Jazzbutcher wrote:
I have to say though that MP3 in any format doesn't stand up to being played on Hi Fi ever, it just doesn't sound very good.

Agreed. All the flaws are revealed more prominently. I've tried it with my Zune and wasn't satisfied.
Jazzbutcher wrote:
It does however stand being played through headphones which is what most people do with them. Still sound shit to me though.

I have an outdated 120 Gig Microsoft Zune for motorcycling and plane travel. Not one of the newer hi-res ones. But the Zune software takes my FLAC files and downgrades it to something appropriate for the Zune's limited processing power. I don't know what it is but it is better than any mp3 I've ever heard but not as good as WAV or FLAC for sure. While I'd love to have one of those expensive portable hi-res players just because...on the bike with all the wind noise and on the plane and my plugged ears, I probably wouldn't be able to appreciate the difference. But for riding and flying, it does the trick pretty well. I just have to look for low profile earbuds that my helmet will slide over and with the highest sensitivity rating to overcome 80 mph wind noise. Best I've found is 108 db.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:31 pm 
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x1glider wrote:
Jazzbutcher wrote:
I have recorded vinyl onto my computer in this format & it's difficult to tell the difference as my amplifier does exactly the same as it would with any signal amplifies it.

I haven't ripped any vinyl yet (what are you using?) but for CDs I use FLAC for the simple reason that it's easier for me to fill in missing metadata and can attach higher resolution artwork. Most artwork I have is 1500x1500 and looks better than 600x600 when using my 60" tele as a monitor. I think WAV has some metadata limitations, but may actually be sonically better. It's something I may have to revisit. But any decision I make regarding formats may need to wait as I would like to get into DSD formats. However, I can't name a car that will play it. I think most cars will play WAV, but mine will play FLAC because I had the CODEC installed to do it.
Jazzbutcher wrote:
I have to say though that MP3 in any format doesn't stand up to being played on Hi Fi ever, it just doesn't sound very good.

Agreed. All the flaws are revealed more prominently. I've tried it with my Zune and wasn't satisfied.
Jazzbutcher wrote:
It does however stand being played through headphones which is what most people do with them. Still sound shit to me though.

I have an outdated 120 Gig Microsoft Zune for motorcycling and plane travel. Not one of the newer hi-res ones. But the Zune software takes my FLAC files and downgrades it to something appropriate for the Zune's limited processing power. I don't know what it is but it is better than any mp3 I've ever heard but not as good as WAV or FLAC for sure. While I'd love to have one of those expensive portable hi-res players just because...on the bike with all the wind noise and on the plane and my plugged ears, I probably wouldn't be able to appreciate the difference. But for riding and flying, it does the trick pretty well. I just have to look for low profile earbuds that my helmet will slide over and with the highest sensitivity rating to overcome 80 mph wind noise. Best I've found is 108 db.


I download from Bandcamp (worth a look as you can listen before you buy) with Wavs & anytime I'm downloading it's either Flacs or Wavs those are the formats I look for, very rarely 320 Mp3 but if it's all that's available I will take it & record it to Cd for my car or something.
I rip Cd's with Nero 9 to wavs, DVDs with WinX & do vinyl via my Creative labs Z sound card recorder to wavs also, Play back through my computer via Windows media player 11 which hands the signal to my amp.
I record everything onto separate 2TB hard drives & never move anything on them so they stay un fragmented. Everything gets disconnected when I'm online. I really don't want my complete collection of everything F****d by virus's so the very clever ones never get the opportunity to get on my drives.
All the best Paul.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:37 pm 
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I hear you on the trust issue regarding viruses. I don't know what's worse, a virus destroying everything or iTunes taking total control and rearranging everything how it wants, not what you want. iTunes is shit no matter what.

I don't have a dedicated sound card and I simply use Windows Media Player on Win 10 for everything right now. It rips my CDs to the format I want and I have everything organized how I like it. I can still send all my music direct to my amp as well. The amp does the decoding, so I never needed any of the extra features a sound card offers.

Though, at a friend's house a couple years back, I did try re-EQing some recordings using dbPowerAmp. A slow process but the goal was to reduce the extreme volume, boominess and clarify the low end on one recording and to increase the low and high end detail on a much older recording while giving it a slight boost. The end game was to try to improve 2 different recordings so that they were pretty equal when played back. Old recordings can be quiet and weak and some new stuff is seriously loud and over-emphasized. Back to back listening is pretty annoying. When the loud one comes on, it'll wake the dead. But both need the EQ fiddled with to sound better.

That goes back to an earlier discussion about sound engineering based on the format and the playback equipment of the time. The end result wasn't what I hoped. The quiet recording got EQd how I wanted it but noise was added in the process. The overemphasized recording worked to a large degree without adding noise since I was cutting, not boosting frequencies, but I can tell that some of the more subtle details in the low end got cut too much to the point they were non-existent. If I didn't already know they were really there, I'd have never missed it.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:41 pm 
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x1glider wrote:
I hear you on the trust issue regarding viruses. I don't know what's worse, a virus destroying everything or iTunes taking total control and rearranging everything how it wants, not what you want. iTunes is shit no matter what.

I don't have a dedicated sound card and I simply use Windows Media Player on Win 10 for everything right now. It rips my CDs to the format I want and I have everything organized how I like it. I can still send all my music direct to my amp as well. The amp does the decoding, so I never needed any of the extra features a sound card offers.

Though, at a friend's house a couple years back, I did try re-EQing some recordings using dbPowerAmp. A slow process but the goal was to reduce the extreme volume, boominess and clarify the low end on one recording and to increase the low and high end detail on a much older recording while giving it a slight boost. The end game was to try to improve 2 different recordings so that they were pretty equal when played back. Old recordings can be quiet and weak and some new stuff is seriously loud and over-emphasized. Back to back listening is pretty annoying. When the loud one comes on, it'll wake the dead. But both need the EQ fiddled with to sound better.

That goes back to an earlier discussion about sound engineering based on the format and the playback equipment of the time. The end result wasn't what I hoped. The quiet recording got EQd how I wanted it but noise was added in the process. The overemphasized recording worked to a large degree without adding noise since I was cutting, not boosting frequencies, but I can tell that some of the more subtle details in the low end got cut too much to the point they were non-existent. If I didn't already know they were really there, I'd have never missed it.


Hi Buddy,
My dedicated sound card is only for recording vinyl as it has a recording facility that allows it, It also sends a great signal to the amp from media player. I can also boost or eq using the soundcard but hardly ever bother especially when recording. If it sounded like it does on the record that's fine for me, as you've already said, old recording techniques were the sound that was recorded, why F**k with it.
Forgot to say I also encode CDs to WMA lossless for storage, not a bad format in my opinion for sound quality & saves you opening the Cd box all the time ha ha. Talk about lazy.
I really like Windows Media Player as a player, tried Winamp & a couple of others but MP is easier & does n extremely adequate job.
Totally agree with Itunes, made the mistake a long time back of having my music files re-organised into tracks & into folders I didn't even recognise by Itunes. Really fucked my collection up big style.
Give me good old Windows Explorer & a few hard drives, very easy indeed.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:24 pm 
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Jazzbutcher wrote:
Hi Buddy,
My dedicated sound card is only for recording vinyl as it has a recording facility that allows it, It also sends a great signal to the amp from media player. I can also boost or eq using the soundcard but hardly ever bother especially when recording. If it sounded like it does on the record that's fine for me, as you've already said, old recording techniques were the sound that was recorded, why F**k with it.
Forgot to say I also encode CDs to WMA lossless for storage, not a bad format in my opinion for sound quality & saves you opening the Cd box all the time ha ha. Talk about lazy.
I really like Windows Media Player as a player, tried Winamp & a couple of others but MP is easier & does n extremely adequate job.
Totally agree with Itunes, made the mistake a long time back of having my music files re-organised into tracks & into folders I didn't even recognise by Itunes. Really fucked my collection up big style.
Give me good old Windows Explorer & a few hard drives, very easy indeed.

I used to have everything on WMA lossless myself, before I got the FLAC codec for WMP. At the time it was the best format built into WMP. Now FLAC is included in the version that comes with Win10. It is also the best format that can play in my Jeep with the UConnect system, which is actually Windows based.

And if I ever get my dream Maserati, it uses a tarted up version of the same UConnect system but with B&W speakers and a 900w Harmon Kardon amp so I can stay compatible. :mrgreen: I can dream...

I actually really like WMP as well, it's what I exclusively use, at first because of convenience because it cam with Windows, but still because it's actually really good for what I do. I too tried WinAmp and dbPowerAmp and a couple others that used lossless formats that seemed too obscure (like Orvis) so that they'd never be compatible with anything else but your own computer. The WMA interface is intuitive and easy. Ripping and organizing is a snap. I'm told dbPowerAmp has a much more accurate ability to rip lossless files but, to me, the interface is too much like needing to be an advanced user of MS Excel or Access. It's extremely powerful for organizing and editing metadata and such and can easily do batch conversion, it's best attribute. In fact if WMP could convert at all and especially batch convert, it would be extremely awesome.

I do lots of manual metadata editing in WMP. I'm always renaming files in a manner that allows them to play in order, important for concept albums such as The Wall, Operation Mindcrime, 6 Degrees Of Inner Turbulence so the tracks play in sequence. But I also make it so all the different artists' albums are organized by date of release and track numbers are changed to go from 1-250 if need be so I can listen to one artist, start to finish in chronological order. Takes a lot of time but I like listening and seeing the band progress through the years. Actually Neil Young and Bob Seger have so damn many albums that I have well over 200 files for each, nearly 250. 1-10 for the 1st album, 11-20 for the 2nd, 21-30 for the 3rd, etc.

And WMA is also the only format I know that allows multiple tags for genre. I can take a Jimi Hendrix file and tag it: Rock, Classic Rock, 60s, Acid Rock, American. Or a Bach file and tag it: Classical, Baroque. Or Tchaikovsky and tag him, Classical, Romantic. Or an Animals file and tag it: Rock, Classic Rock, 60s, British Invasion. Then I can opt to play only 60s music or only British Invasion music instead of making a monstrous living file for a playlist. I find it works great for playing specific moods I'm in, especially since the British Invasion spanned the 60s and 70s so I'm not stuck only listening to just 60s stuff. etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:46 pm 
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x1glider wrote:
Jazzbutcher wrote:
Hi Buddy,
My dedicated sound card is only for recording vinyl as it has a recording facility that allows it, It also sends a great signal to the amp from media player. I can also boost or eq using the soundcard but hardly ever bother especially when recording. If it sounded like it does on the record that's fine for me, as you've already said, old recording techniques were the sound that was recorded, why F**k with it.
Forgot to say I also encode CDs to WMA lossless for storage, not a bad format in my opinion for sound quality & saves you opening the Cd box all the time ha ha. Talk about lazy.
I really like Windows Media Player as a player, tried Winamp & a couple of others but MP is easier & does n extremely adequate job.
Totally agree with Itunes, made the mistake a long time back of having my music files re-organised into tracks & into folders I didn't even recognise by Itunes. Really fucked my collection up big style.
Give me good old Windows Explorer & a few hard drives, very easy indeed.

I used to have everything on WMA lossless myself, before I got the FLAC codec for WMP. At the time it was the best format built into WMP. Now FLAC is included in the version that comes with Win10. It is also the best format that can play in my Jeep with the UConnect system, which is actually Windows based.

And if I ever get my dream Maserati, it uses a tarted up version of the same UConnect system but with B&W speakers and a 900w Harmon Kardon amp so I can stay compatible. :mrgreen: I can dream...

I actually really like WMP as well, it's what I exclusively use, at first because of convenience because it cam with Windows, but still because it's actually really good for what I do. I too tried WinAmp and dbPowerAmp and a couple others that used lossless formats that seemed too obscure (like Orvis) so that they'd never be compatible with anything else but your own computer. The WMA interface is intuitive and easy. Ripping and organizing is a snap. I'm told dbPowerAmp has a much more accurate ability to rip lossless files but, to me, the interface is too much like needing to be an advanced user of MS Excel or Access. It's extremely powerful for organizing and editing metadata and such and can easily do batch conversion, it's best attribute. In fact if WMP could convert at all and especially batch convert, it would be extremely awesome.

I do lots of manual metadata editing in WMP. I'm always renaming files in a manner that allows them to play in order, important for concept albums such as The Wall, Operation Mindcrime, 6 Degrees Of Inner Turbulence so the tracks play in sequence. But I also make it so all the different artists' albums are organized by date of release and track numbers are changed to go from 1-250 if need be so I can listen to one artist, start to finish in chronological order. Takes a lot of time but I like listening and seeing the band progress through the years. Actually Neil Young and Bob Seger have so damn many albums that I have well over 200 files for each, nearly 250. 1-10 for the 1st album, 11-20 for the 2nd, 21-30 for the 3rd, etc.

And WMA is also the only format I know that allows multiple tags for genre. I can take a Jimi Hendrix file and tag it: Rock, Classic Rock, 60s, Acid Rock, American. Or a Bach file and tag it: Classical, Baroque. Or Tchaikovsky and tag him, Classical, Romantic. Or an Animals file and tag it: Rock, Classic Rock, 60s, British Invasion. Then I can opt to play only 60s music or only British Invasion music instead of making a monstrous living file for a playlist. I find it works great for playing specific moods I'm in, especially since the British Invasion spanned the 60s and 70s so I'm not stuck only listening to just 60s stuff. etc.


Now you're talking, I'm also into listing correctly (for me) & do exactly the same with chronological order of albums for individual artists, I think it's for posterity as no one else ever sees it. I just simply have genres (I think nine or ten) & use explorer to search those for the artist I'm after. I'm personally not really bothered about the covers, just a simple pic will do me to identify the album by pic if needs be when I open the artist file, but I always put the track names in if Media player doesn't.
I let a 1st edition mint copy of Pink Floyds "The Wall" go for £38 quid on Ebay a couple of years ago, God damn, probably won't get another, it sounded fantastic, unfortunately I was into Suicidal Black Metal at that point. If you fancy it Shining (band) from Sweden (important) is a good place to start. Pissed about the copy of the wall though now I'm back into my Psychedelic roots.
Totally agree with your comments about WMA's pretty good format & universal.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:52 pm 
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Jazzbutcher wrote:
Totally agree with your comments about WMA's pretty good format & universal.

I wish it was more universal. (If it wasn't for Window OS, it may have ceased to exist years ago.)
That way we'd have more options for portable accessories and especially for playing in the car. Pretty much every car can do mp3 but a small percentage can play WMA and not all of those can do lossless WMA. And there's also very, very few hi-fi component manufacturers that offer support. Probably has to do with a licensing fee to offer the codec and the hi-fi makers probably figure no one really uses WMA, so why spend the money on something no one will use. "Hello!!!! I do!!!!"

Even though FLAC is my main format, because I have the old Zune player, I still need my library duplicated in WMA lossless. 1st, for the little player, but also because I have a Kicker Boombox that the Zune docks into so I can take it all over. I mostly use it in the backyard and while using the swim-spa.

This past weekend, I shot sporting clays and rabbit with a group of friends on his ranch land out in the country. Took the boombox with us and we played everything tagged classic rock since it's a friendly enough genre for everyone 50 -75. That way none of my harder stuff popped up and had the old farts shouting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bobVbspr4M

Image

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:30 am 
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x1glider wrote:
edd wrote:
Our local second hand vinyl emporium is in a basement premises and smells a little damp, even though it isn’t really, so mayby It’s Just historic. When l go down there the music from there little demo system playing vintage (or maybe it should now be called veteran? lOl ) vinyl always sounds good. 8-)

Even more weird is the fact that l left with 2 CDs yesterday! :oooops:

I think what you experienced down in that basement was the sweet feeling of nostalgia. ;)

What CDs?


No it was more than just nostalgia, they were good ‘old’ LPs; first pressings of Lizard by King Crimson and a Fripp and Eno LP, l forget the one.

CDs were a remastered copy of Revolver by the Beatles, one of their best albums ( a present for a friend), and ‘Blue Bell Knoll’ by the Cocteau Twins. One of my favourites. I have the original LP, and l have a home taped copy for use in the car, but just wanted a CD copy for convenience. 8-) Did you get much of the 4AD label over the pond?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:44 am 
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Try googling ‘Carolyn’s Fingers’ by the Cocteau Twins. This track captures the flavour of the album and those times. ;)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:41 am 
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My neighbours love me ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:02 pm 
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The 4AD label wasn't popular here except as more
expensive import editions. Might also have something to do with the bands that we're signed to it and where the USA pop culture was at the time.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:06 pm 
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Finmows wrote:

Good thing you don't live here. Your place would've been riddled with bullets and the cops would've let everyone go. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:23 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvswW6M7bMo



;) I couldn't resist lOl :yup:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:41 am 
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x1glider wrote:
The 4AD label wasn't popular here except as more
expensive import editions. Might also have something to do with the bands that we're signed to it and where the USA pop culture was at the time.


Funny, but l was just reading about the Cocteau Twins and the album getting some accolade in North America! Would that have been awarded by some clique in New York or Boston who didn’t listen to national moods? A bit like here in London and Manchester!

Whoops, we’re veering back towards a thread hijack!? lOl


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:53 am 
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Nutah wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvswW6M7bMo



;) I couldn't resist lOl :yup:


Heh heh.

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