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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:36 am 
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Finmows wrote:
Ah!... chemical enhancements, for those that have difficulty dealing with reality


Hi Finmows,

That seems to me like an extremely narrow minded statement regarding reality, especially when there are so many new theories being explored about this. Am I to assume from your statement, that you are egotistically arrogant enough to "believe" you know what reality is?

Did you watch the links I provided?

I differ from your point of view in that I totally admit to not understanding what reality is, especially in scientific terms, (familiar with most scientists who are exploring this I think) and my (and their) understanding of reality does seem to be changing very radically at this particular time, especially now that "Consciousness" has entered scientific equations.

I am also very open & keen to explore these wider viewpoints in whichever way I feel may be suitable to expand or enhance my understanding. Your comment (just my opinion) does seem to say more about yourself & the boundaries you put on your own understanding than it does about mine. Further to this, any "difficulties" I may encounter with reality, would be much more urgent to me, if I was unfortunate enough to hold your viewpoint I'm afraid.

All the best paul.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:29 pm 
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All you need to do is question the author, the time and thus the cultural context with regard to social conditions and political influences....I think you will find it is all complete and utter bollocks, everything, the whole fucking lot, nothing is real, it is all momentary and not worth a wank really....We are not important in the grand scheme, so everything else is open to comprehension on multiple levels, it is beginning to understand the multiple levels and from which perspective and species when the fun begins......

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:51 am 
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att wrote:
All you need to do is question the author, the time and thus the cultural context with regard to social conditions and political influences....I think you will find it is all complete and utter bollocks, everything, the whole fucking lot, nothing is real, it is all momentary and not worth a wank really....We are not important in the grand scheme, so everything else is open to comprehension on multiple levels, it is beginning to understand the multiple levels and from which perspective and species when the fun begins......


Hi again Att,

Sorry I have to disagree that it's all bollocks, I think science is at last looking at the consciousness theories and these are beginning to develop. I'm a fan of pixelated reality for the moment as it keys directly into my own understanding. I also know that this is exactly why I am a fan of the theory.

I agree with the momentary concept, however, I think it's more about how we experience those moments that is of more concern.

I don't agree that we are unimportant as a species.
Perhaps as individuals more so, but we are responsible for our individuality rather than unity as a species.
However, as a species I think we are important if we take a Universal view. I just think we took a wrong turn with individuality & ego states, neither of which are good for unity of our species.

As far as understanding goes, I'm trying my best.

On the other hand, one really fortunate thing about the wrong turn, is I ended up with a F****n' Buell 1125r and whether this is reality or not, that torque delivery is an experience to behold.

All the best Paul.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:03 am 
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Dave from Scotland wrote:
Jazzbutcher wrote:
Dave from Scotland wrote:
Fins and others,

You call and I will come!

JazzB makes some interesting and valid points, whilst still missing the main issue.

Einstein's Theory of Relativity (ToR) is wrong. We have known this for the thick end of 80 years. It is a "classical" (meaning pre-quantum) theory and cannot be reconciled with the (more correct) quantum view of the universe.

At this point, we all need to take a philosophical point of view - does this mean that the theory (ToR) is "wrong", or that it is "basically true" but that there is a deeper theory that we should continue to look for.

When NASA (or anyone else) launches probes to the planets, they rely on Newton rather than Einstein, because it is far easier to work with and the discrepancies are utterly trivial. This does not show that Newton is any more or less (it is less) true than Einstein - it shows that it is a theory that we can work with and gets our probes to where we need them - within the required remit, it works.

As for the Large Hadron (not Hedron!) Collider (noting that Hadron is derived from the Greek and implies a particle with a particualr property that we call "mass") and the suggestion that this is still trying to find the evicence that the Big Bnag actually occurred, I would simply point the OP to Penzias and Wilson, which settled that debate over 40 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery ... _radiation.

Again, going back to the question of whether our theories are only "current" or "final", I would direct the OP to Dreams Of A Final Theory (https://www.amazon.com/Dreams-Final-The ... 0679744088) by the Noble prize winning Steven Weinberg. This is, in truth, more of a polemic than a book, but get your head around that first before you start trying to post threads about a lack of a possble "final" theory.

Back in busines!

Dave


Hi Dave,

Got a copy of Dreams of a final Theory on order off Ebay £3.75 2nd hand.

Thanks for the tip. Paul.



Paul,

For £3.75 you're not going to lose a lot.

As I say, it is a polemic (bemoaning the USA's decision not to build a huge collider and let Europe take the lead with the LHC - the US dug half the tunnels then pulled the plug).

It does, however, dig into the question of whether there IS a "final theory" or whether we are just peeling an onion, with deeper and deeper truths going down forever (at higher energy levels).

Looking at the history, each time we put more BHP into our experiments we find new things: will this go on forever? The answer (it seems to me) must be "no" - there must be a fundamental set of indivisable particles, beyond which we cannot go. There, if anywhere, lies the fundamental truth.

(If you want to go off piste, try "Disturbing the Universe" by Freeman Dyson. You won't learn any fundamental truths, but you might learn a bit about how science works: possibly the best book I ever read: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Disturbing-Uni ... e+universe

Dave


Hi Dave,

That book is really interesting, I'm a slow reader & only 50 pages in, but it seems to be filling in historic details of why & where they are looking now. I'm really glad you recommended it. I'm making more sense of the other things I'm looking at because of it. I'll have a look for the other one you recommended when I've done this one (probably Easter ha ha).

Thanks & all the best. Paul.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:22 am 
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Try teaching or programming spiritual or energy healing into a computer! ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:16 am 
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edd wrote:
Try teaching or programming spiritual or energy healing into a computer! ;)


Ok Edd,

Go ahead, bring it back in, I'm up for it.

Feels like you might burst or something otherwise.

What do you mean by spiritual or energy healing (remember these are not easy terms for most people to quantify), me included although I'm willing to try.

AND ONE THING AT A TIME if you don't mind, lets have another look at this and try & bring it back into physics or something kind of not so general as Spiritual.

I think Spiritual means unexplained. Lets see if we can get an explanation eh?

C'mon lets be having you Edd & don't make it too complicated.

All the best Paul.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:23 pm 
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Ok so maybe there is a way, but not my way.

I watched an investigative documentary once into people’s perception of supernatural phenomena, and part of one of the explanations for Such experiences included the electrical charge put into the air by domestic electric fans. It was suggested that this static or electromagnetic charge was interfering with a persons brainwaves and possibly creating ‘spiritual’ manifestations. This would not be beyond reason to me, but l do not use a fan, so simply instructing a computer to dim the lights, create a set temperature and humidity, and to turn on the fan isn’t going to automatically recreate a ‘healing’ experience. :?

I do use relaxing music played quietly in the background to create a sense of ambience, but l have to do some work to initiate a ‘flow of some kind of electrical activity/interconnectivity of brainwaves’ call it what you will. The placebo effect cannot help me here as l do not talk or touch the subject person during this phase. You have to focus your mind by a degree of meditation and put yourself into a kind of twilight zone between daydream and relaxed awake, if that makes sense? If you meditate this will be easier to understand. With practice you can become aware of another persons ‘aura’ as a sort of invisible electrical field around them. By holding your hands about 5 to 6 inches away, then moving them closer or further away to find a point of equilibrium which is neither too cool or warm is what l look for as the position of the subject persons aura. This is also the distance at which ‘healing’ appears to have most effect.

Now all that takes a bit of practice and a way of thinking l had to learn, sometimes by trial and error, sometimes from advice by experienced teachers in the field of Spiritualism (hate that word, but it’s where it’s at! ;) . I don’t know how you would begin to teach an artificial thinking machine those subtleties unless they were a party to an all pervading sensory nervous system as we are gifted with in the human body. This is possibly just a matter of complexity at our stage of technological development.

More questionable is our ability to connect with external electrical fields that are not injurious to our health!? They do exist in my experience. :old:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:30 pm 
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edd wrote:
Ok so maybe there is a way, but not my way.

I watched an investigative documentary once into people’s perception of supernatural phenomena, and part of one of the explanations for Such experiences included the electrical charge put into the air by domestic electric fans. It was suggested that this static or electromagnetic charge was interfering with a persons brainwaves and possibly creating ‘spiritual’ manifestations. This would not be beyond reason to me, but l do not use a fan, so simply instructing a computer to dim the lights, create a set temperature and humidity, and to turn on the fan isn’t going to automatically recreate a ‘healing’ experience. :?

I do use relaxing music played quietly in the background to create a sense of ambience, but l have to do some work to initiate a ‘flow of some kind of electrical activity/interconnectivity of brainwaves’ call it what you will. The placebo effect cannot help me here as l do not talk or touch the subject person during this phase. You have to focus your mind by a degree of meditation and put yourself into a kind of twilight zone between daydream and relaxed awake, if that makes sense? If you meditate this will be easier to understand. With practice you can become aware of another persons ‘aura’ as a sort of invisible electrical field around them. By holding your hands about 5 to 6 inches away, then moving them closer or further away to find a point of equilibrium which is neither too cool or warm is what l look for as the position of the subject persons aura. This is also the distance at which ‘healing’ appears to have most effect.

Now all that takes a bit of practice and a way of thinking l had to learn, sometimes by trial and error, sometimes from advice by experienced teachers in the field of Spiritualism (hate that word, but it’s where it’s at! ;) . I don’t know how you would begin to teach an artificial thinking machine those subtleties unless they were a party to an all pervading sensory nervous system as we are gifted with in the human body. This is possibly just a matter of complexity at our stage of technological development.

More questionable is our ability to connect with external electrical fields that are not injurious to our health!? They do exist in my experience. :old:


Sorry Edd,

Pm your email if you want to continue this conversation ok.

My apologies again folks.

Buell stuff only from now on.

_________________
Ride Safe & Stay between the hedgerows.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:40 pm 
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Social

Off topic discussion and chat, registered forum members access only.

:yup:

OK it's just trying to keep stuff in the right bit , makes things easier to find
to moderate , & search when the need arises :yup:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:46 pm 
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l thought we were discussing consciousness theories or sub-atomic theories on this thread? :?

We are in our place and not in conflict with administrators.........are we yet? ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:49 pm 
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Jazzbutcher wrote:
edd wrote:
Ok so maybe there is a way, but not my way.

I watched an investigative documentary once into people’s perception of supernatural phenomena, and part of one of the explanations for Such experiences included the electrical charge put into the air by domestic electric fans. It was suggested that this static or electromagnetic charge was interfering with a persons brainwaves and possibly creating ‘spiritual’ manifestations. This would not be beyond reason to me, but l do not use a fan, so simply instructing a computer to dim the lights, create a set temperature and humidity, and to turn on the fan isn’t going to automatically recreate a ‘healing’ experience. :?

I do use relaxing music played quietly in the background to create a sense of ambience, but l have to do some work to initiate a ‘flow of some kind of electrical activity/interconnectivity of brainwaves’ call it what you will. The placebo effect cannot help me here as l do not talk or touch the subject person during this phase. You have to focus your mind by a degree of meditation and put yourself into a kind of twilight zone between daydream and relaxed awake, if that makes sense? If you meditate this will be easier to understand. With practice you can become aware of another persons ‘aura’ as a sort of invisible electrical field around them. By holding your hands about 5 to 6 inches away, then moving them closer or further away to find a point of equilibrium which is neither too cool or warm is what l look for as the position of the subject persons aura. This is also the distance at which ‘healing’ appears to have most effect.

Now all that takes a bit of practice and a way of thinking l had to learn, sometimes by trial and error, sometimes from advice by experienced teachers in the field of Spiritualism (hate that word, but it’s where it’s at! ;) . I don’t know how you would begin to teach an artificial thinking machine those subtleties unless they were a party to an all pervading sensory nervous system as we are gifted with in the human body. This is possibly just a matter of complexity at our stage of technological development.

More questionable is our ability to connect with external electrical fields that are not injurious to our health!? They do exist in my experience. :old:


Sorry Edd,

Pm your email if you want to continue this conversation ok.

My apologies again folks.

Buell stuff only from now on.


I'm just trying to be helpful Edd :yup:

_________________
Obey the principles without being bound by them.
Bruce Lee


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:13 pm 
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Nutah wrote:
Jazzbutcher wrote:
Sorry Edd,

Pm your email if you want to continue this conversation ok.

My apologies again folks.

Buell stuff only from now on.


I'm just trying to be helpful Edd :yup:


Not questioning you Nutah, l don’t understand your last intrusion. Was it Paul who stopped this or did l miss something between posts? I’m trying to discuss consciousness theory in the right thread here, not sell religion. If you want me to discuss this further without references to spiritualism please say. I think the gap here lies in perceptions of physics verses altered mental states. One may explain the other, and may be the only way of getting to the root cause.

We are entering a phlosophical level of how we proceed in physics. It would be sad to think that Buell fans of all people lost their nerve at this point!? :roll:

Discuss! :dance: ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:23 pm 
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Ok, l’ll go read Freeman Dyson then come back. :?

Isn’t he the guy who designed a spaceship powered by nuclear bombs?! 8-)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:22 pm 
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edd wrote:
Nutah wrote:
Jazzbutcher wrote:
Sorry Edd,

Pm your email if you want to continue this conversation ok.

My apologies again folks.

Buell stuff only from now on.


I'm just trying to be helpful Edd :yup:


Not questioning you Nutah, l don’t understand your last intrusion. Was it Paul who stopped this or did l miss something between posts? I’m trying to discuss consciousness theory in the right thread here, not sell religion. If you want me to discuss this further without references to spiritualism please say. I think the gap here lies in perceptions of physics verses altered mental states. One may explain the other, and may be the only way of getting to the root cause.

We are entering a phlosophical level of how we proceed in physics. It would be sad to think that Buell fans of all people lost their nerve at this point!? :roll:

Discuss! :dance: ;)


Hi Edd,

Nutah has nothing at all to do with this. He only put a stop on the new Hi Fi thread, which was in fact the correct thing to do, as like he says it confuses stuff. I totally get that.

I'm the one stopping talking about stuff other than Buells simply because this is a Buell site & taking up pages & pages on Sub Atomics (and Hi Fi) where there is very little interest to perhaps 95-98% (I'm Guessing) of the site users, is probably a little selfish. Also I'm pretty sure that anyone visiting a Buell Site won't be looking for Sub Atomics or Hi Fi, despite our interest.

Like I said, I'm totally ok continuing to talk about it via email or some other method.

My apologies (again) for that misunderstanding Nutah and Edd both. I should have been clearer.

All the best Paul.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:19 am 
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Jazzbutcher wrote:
edd wrote:
Nutah wrote:
Jazzbutcher wrote:
Sorry Edd,

Pm your email if you want to continue this conversation ok.

My apologies again folks.

Buell stuff only from now on.


I'm just trying to be helpful Edd :yup:


Not questioning you Nutah, l don’t understand your last intrusion. Was it Paul who stopped this or did l miss something between posts? I’m trying to discuss consciousness theory in the right thread here, not sell religion. If you want me to discuss this further without references to spiritualism please say. I think the gap here lies in perceptions of physics verses altered mental states. One may explain the other, and may be the only way of getting to the root cause.

We are entering a phlosophical level of how we proceed in physics. It would be sad to think that Buell fans of all people lost their nerve at this point!? :roll:

Discuss! :dance: ;)


Hi Edd,

Nutah has nothing at all to do with this. He only put a stop on the new Hi Fi thread, which was in fact the correct thing to do, as like he says it confuses stuff. I totally get that.

I'm the one stopping talking about stuff other than Buells simply because this is a Buell site & taking up pages & pages on Sub Atomics (and Hi Fi) where there is very little interest to perhaps 95-98% (I'm Guessing) of the site users, is probably a little selfish. Also I'm pretty sure that anyone visiting a Buell Site won't be looking for Sub Atomics or Hi Fi, despite our interest.

Like I said, I'm totally ok continuing to talk about it via email or some other method.

My apologies (again) for that misunderstanding Nutah and Edd both. I should have been clearer.

All the best Paul.


Fortunately My buell 1125r lets me speak for it most of the time. Check out the Hi Fi thread For Buell only talk. ha ha.

_________________
Ride Safe & Stay between the hedgerows.


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