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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:56 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:24 pm
Posts: 80
Current ride: Uly Fat Bob Z1 Z1000
Location: Norfolk
Out on Saturday on the ULY to see a local engineering company about having a 1 off exhaust system made, I originally intended on having it made from titanium but after talking to the guy he estimated £1800, way outside my budget, so we agreed on stainless steel, the plan is to go for larger diameter headers two individual pipes curved under the sump as a pair remaining the same diameter throughout the full length then exiting together as a pair on the left near the rear wheel. planning on running without any baffles, although we will have a pair to fit for MOT's .

I have 2 questions for guys on here with more knowledge than me on these things.
1 will I need to have the ECU remapped.
2 would you advise fitting some sort of link/balance pipe.

If I cant make this idea work I will be ordering an Albert system.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:13 am 
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I would recommend the APH system. I have a full system on my Uly with the ECM remapped to suit by Pash. Alan will fabricate the system any way you want it. Definitely worth a conversation.

Steve

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:24 pm
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Current ride: Uly Fat Bob Z1 Z1000
Location: Norfolk
ursus americanus wrote:
I would recommend the APH system. I have a full system on my Uly with the ECM remapped to suit by Pash. Alan will fabricate the system any way you want it. Definitely worth a conversation.

Steve


I had an AHP with bypass pipe (std headers) on my last ULY, very well made and looked great. my reason for looking at bespoke system is just that I like something different, since posting this morning I've had a call back and it now seems that they are so busy its going to be June before they can start. not sure I can wait that long.

I currently have a second hand cheap Jardine fitted looks as though its straight through, sounds ok but don't look all that good, not had the ECU mapped for this one as yet.

I think a call to Alan is on the cards.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:51 pm 
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Current ride: Triumph ST - RS
Location: West Lothian, Bonnie Scotland
APH all day long :yup:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 7:54 pm
Posts: 2486
Current ride: 1999 X1
Location: Texas, Gerrards Cross
t965m wrote:
APH all day long :yup:

Agreed on this. Keep in mind a muffler will have to be sourced from another guy on here.

You haven't stated what other mods you have done, if any. If you haven't done any other than perhaps throwing in a K&N, you'd be extremely disappointed with the results of what you asked for.

The engineering has already been done and by Buell no less. The various diameters and runner lengths were already carefully engineered by Buell to run the best throughout the rev range, whether it be stock headers or their race headers designed to work with their race ecm mapping.

Simply making larger diameter pipes all the same length (no graduated steps of a certain length) does 3 immediate things.
1. It will run leaner and pop like a muthafucka.
2. It will have lower volumetric efficiency because you ruined the ability to scavenge properly.
3. You will lose torque an HP everywhere and whatever you do have will only exist at the higher rpms.

Losing the muffler also exacerbates the problem giving you more of 1 through 3 and adding result number 4... sounding like a twat for no good reason.

The differing diameters and runner lengths are designed to facilitate the pressure waves coming from the combustion chamber to travel back and forth in the runners. The length is determined by requiring the negative pressure wave to travel back up the header and hitting the combustion chamber as soon as both intake and exhaust valves are open so it can scavenge for the best cylinder fill. The designer will select what rpm they want that to happen at. For a cruiser, lumping along, it is shorter for max torque at a low rpm. A race bike will be shorter for more torque at a high rpm. It's all about timing.

My land speed bikes were made to only run WFO at max rpm...up to 8000 rpm. It ran like shit everywhere else. I had 4 steps of differing lengths and no muffs so that all my power was between 7 and 8k. I was getting 270 RWHP on a DynoJet 250 eddy current dyno out of a normally aspirated 1650. The lower rpms were still high compared to a stocker but the ramp up was extremely steep and didn't kick in till 5k.

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Bob Krzeszkiewicz
2012 XR1200X - 2011 Kawasaki Z1000SX - 1999 Buell X1


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:24 pm
Posts: 80
Current ride: Uly Fat Bob Z1 Z1000
Location: Norfolk
x1glider wrote:
t965m wrote:
APH all day long :yup:

Agreed on this. Keep in mind a muffler will have to be sourced from another guy on here.

You haven't stated what other mods you have done, if any. If you haven't done any other than perhaps throwing in a K&N, you'd be extremely disappointed with the results of what you asked for.

The engineering has already been done and by Buell no less. The various diameters and runner lengths were already carefully engineered by Buell to run the best throughout the rev range, whether it be stock headers or their race headers designed to work with their race ecm mapping.

Simply making larger diameter pipes all the same length (no graduated steps of a certain length) does 3 immediate things.
1. It will run leaner and pop like a muthafucka.
2. It will have lower volumetric efficiency because you ruined the ability to scavenge properly.
3. You will lose torque an HP everywhere and whatever you do have will only exist at the higher rpms.

Losing the muffler also exacerbates the problem giving you more of 1 through 3 and adding result number 4... sounding like a twat for no good reason.

The differing diameters and runner lengths are designed to facilitate the pressure waves coming from the combustion chamber to travel back and forth in the runners. The length is determined by requiring the negative pressure wave to travel back up the header and hitting the combustion chamber as soon as both intake and exhaust valves are open so it can scavenge for the best cylinder fill. The designer will select what rpm they want that to happen at. For a cruiser, lumping along, it is shorter for max torque at a low rpm. A race bike will be shorter for more torque at a high rpm. It's all about timing.

My land speed bikes were made to only run WFO at max rpm...up to 8000 rpm. It ran like shit everywhere else. I had 4 steps of differing lengths and no muffs so that all my power was between 7 and 8k. I was getting 270 RWHP on a DynoJet 250 eddy current dyno out of a normally aspirated 1650. The lower rpms were still high compared to a stocker but the ramp up was extremely steep and didn't kick in till 5k.




That's very good information and some way beyond the limits of my understanding, thank you for taking the time to reply.
I have noticed some power loss since removing the stock exhaust and fitting the Jardine (still on standard header's).
I am not searching for ultimate power or speed, if I was looking for that i'd be looking at a different manufacturer and different style of bike.

What I am after is a bike to use the way I like to use it, having had various riding phases over the years I now find I like to have something a bit left field, I have a Harley which has been with us for 10 years (has open short shots fitted) also have 3 70s zeds, so the role of the Uly is primarily early season and late season riding when the weather discourages me form riding the other bikes, as for sounding like a twat sorry but the noise the bike makes is part of the enjoyment of riding for me no more no less I just like the bike to sound good, and if I have to loose a bit of power then that's fine as long as I'm not harming the engine somehow through altering the flow of exhaust gasses, with my limited knowledge and from reading forum posts I had assumed that the ECU could be altered to account for the change of exhaust.

I've had BMW,2 Triumph and 2 Yamaha ADV type bikes, I don't think I need the ever increasing level of tech and sheer bulk which is now built in to these bikes, I find the lighter lower tech Uly suites me better having previously owned 2 other Uly's and regretted selling them I am for the moment satisfied with what the Uly offers and is.

please keep the advice/comments coming.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 7:54 pm
Posts: 2486
Current ride: 1999 X1
Location: Texas, Gerrards Cross
ZED1000 wrote:
x1glider wrote:
t965m wrote:
APH all day long :yup:

Agreed on this. Keep in mind a muffler will have to be sourced from another guy on here.

You haven't stated what other mods you have done, if any. If you haven't done any other than perhaps throwing in a K&N, you'd be extremely disappointed with the results of what you asked for.

The engineering has already been done and by Buell no less. The various diameters and runner lengths were already carefully engineered by Buell to run the best throughout the rev range, whether it be stock headers or their race headers designed to work with their race ecm mapping.

Simply making larger diameter pipes all the same length (no graduated steps of a certain length) does 3 immediate things.
1. It will run leaner and pop like a muthafucka.
2. It will have lower volumetric efficiency because you ruined the ability to scavenge properly.
3. You will lose torque an HP everywhere and whatever you do have will only exist at the higher rpms.

Losing the muffler also exacerbates the problem giving you more of 1 through 3 and adding result number 4... sounding like a twat for no good reason.

The differing diameters and runner lengths are designed to facilitate the pressure waves coming from the combustion chamber to travel back and forth in the runners. The length is determined by requiring the negative pressure wave to travel back up the header and hitting the combustion chamber as soon as both intake and exhaust valves are open so it can scavenge for the best cylinder fill. The designer will select what rpm they want that to happen at. For a cruiser, lumping along, it is shorter for max torque at a low rpm. A race bike will be shorter for more torque at a high rpm. It's all about timing.

My land speed bikes were made to only run WFO at max rpm...up to 8000 rpm. It ran like shit everywhere else. I had 4 steps of differing lengths and no muffs so that all my power was between 7 and 8k. I was getting 270 RWHP on a DynoJet 250 eddy current dyno out of a normally aspirated 1650. The lower rpms were still high compared to a stocker but the ramp up was extremely steep and didn't kick in till 5k.




That's very good information and some way beyond the limits of my understanding, thank you for taking the time to reply.
I have noticed some power loss since removing the stock exhaust and fitting the Jardine (still on standard header's).
I am not searching for ultimate power or speed, if I was looking for that i'd be looking at a different manufacturer and different style of bike.

What I am after is a bike to use the way I like to use it, having had various riding phases over the years I now find I like to have something a bit left field, I have a Harley which has been with us for 10 years (has open short shots fitted) also have 3 70s zeds, so the role of the Uly is primarily early season and late season riding when the weather discourages me form riding the other bikes, as for sounding like a twat sorry but the noise the bike makes is part of the enjoyment of riding for me no more no less I just like the bike to sound good, and if I have to loose a bit of power then that's fine as long as I'm not harming the engine somehow through altering the flow of exhaust gasses, with my limited knowledge and from reading forum posts I had assumed that the ECU could be altered to account for the change of exhaust.

I've had BMW,2 Triumph and 2 Yamaha ADV type bikes, I don't think I need the ever increasing level of tech and sheer bulk which is now built in to these bikes, I find the lighter lower tech Uly suites me better having previously owned 2 other Uly's and regretted selling them I am for the moment satisfied with what the Uly offers and is.

please keep the advice/comments coming.

What you're looking for is exactly what APH can give you. You'll get better performance and sound. And you will benefit with a new map. But the stock ECM can easily make it's own adjustments for just a pipe and K&N swap.

Alan replicated the out-of-production Pro-Series headers for me for my X1. And the Muffler was made by XB4RT on here (PipeWorx). They were designed for the AMA's Pro Thunder race series for Buell to play in. And it actually did a much better job on the street IMO. It ran better everywhere, maybe lost 1/2 mpg on the highway and it sounded really good. Good volume and throaty. When I raced the S1 and X1 at the circuits against SVs and Monsters, everyone liked how the bikes sounded as it wound up. You could here it from a mile away.

The Pro-Series stuff also existed for XB bikes.

As for what sounds good. Yes it's subjective. It's perfectly possible to still have a muffler and sound better than open pipes. The stuff we recommended certainly will. As for your Short Shots, they look real good, but the Long Shots with baffles actually perform better for the application. You'll get your low end torque back and it still sounds loads better than stock. But it is amazing what some people equate to the sound of high-performance. Open pipes only sound great and proper when the A/F ratio is correct, otherwise, lean running sounds worse. That's where good mapping comes in. Not just in fuel delivery but especially in ignition timing which not everyone is capable of altering properly, risking engine damage.

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Bob Krzeszkiewicz
2012 XR1200X - 2011 Kawasaki Z1000SX - 1999 Buell X1


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:49 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:24 pm
Posts: 80
Current ride: Uly Fat Bob Z1 Z1000
Location: Norfolk
Bob
Thanks again for your input, I have a further question if you have the time to reply, is the removal/refitting of the header pipes a straight forward job which I could tackle here at home, I do 90 % of the repair and restoration work on my Zeds and have done a fair bit of servicing and tinkering on my other Uly's.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 7:54 pm
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Current ride: 1999 X1
Location: Texas, Gerrards Cross
Just as easy on any other bike. Fit loose then tighten when it's all together. Just don't forget that part.

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2012 XR1200X - 2011 Kawasaki Z1000SX - 1999 Buell X1


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:26 pm 
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Location: Manchester
....and you'll need to drop the engine out of the frame.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:58 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:24 pm
Posts: 80
Current ride: Uly Fat Bob Z1 Z1000
Location: Norfolk
Maz wrote:
....and you'll need to drop the engine out of the frame.


Really ❗️That sounds like a lot of work.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:07 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:27 pm
Posts: 877
ZED1000 wrote:
Maz wrote:
....and you'll need to drop the engine out of the frame.


Really ❗️That sounds like a lot of work.

Make your own mind up here -

https://youtu.be/KpOH2Uf8u9c

What would I do? Honestly, I'd by now have sold it and bought a tube frame bike. But it's a free choice. Good luck.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:15 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:33 pm
Posts: 4
Current ride: 2008 Uly xt
ZED1000 wrote:
Maz wrote:
....and you'll need to drop the engine out of the frame.


Really ❗️That sounds like a lot of work.


I changed the headers on my XT without rotating the engine.
BUT the front nut of the rear cylinder was fitted blind with a flexi extension.
I got away with it, but it could easily have cross threaded.
My username was :maz: reaction to what I’d done...
Not sure I’d take the chance again, but it is possible.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:57 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:58 pm
Posts: 1486
Current ride: Buell 1125R
If you listen to the scare mongers on here you'll end up doing fuck all on your bike through fear.
Have a look at this, if you feel you're capable, get on with it.
If not, why did you buy a Buell as you're always going to be up against it with jobs like this.
Jesus even changing the plugs takes over an hour 1st time and even then you have to drop the plug socket into the hole & hope you can get the swivel to locate (unless you rotate the engine) but that is such a pain & much more difficult than twiddling swivel sockets with one finger in what are always in very small enclosed spaces with Buells.
Listen, if you never do anything to it, how can you ever expect to learn the short cuts to getting the jobs done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG1sr8X26Lo

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:42 pm 
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Posts: 4
Current ride: 2008 Uly xt
Odd how we don’t see him fitting the rear gasket or starting the hidden nut...
If I hadn’t started on a Friday evening I’d have taken a bag of sweets and a puppy to the local infants school and borrowed a five year old for their small hands.
Maybe the missing bit of the video was him trailering the bike to Maz to finish...


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