Last visit was: Sat May 30, 2020 6:36 am It is currently Sat May 30, 2020 6:36 am

All times are UTC+01:00




 [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 11:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:43 pm
Posts: 116
Current ride: Buell S1 Lightning
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
I have been gradualy as recomended by various people on this site been upgrading my 1996 S1 Lightning. I fitted a Mukuni HRS 42 and the bike runs lovely with it for the very small shot I have had during lockdown, My question is has anyone done a straight swap of heads and pistons from standard to Thunderstorm, and if so what is the difference in performance? I knows these heads are like hobby horse poo , but they do come around from time to time, is the upgrade worth the expence and how much would you be expecting to spend to do it? I belive the cams in my model are similar or the same as the X1 and the WL, but my bike has a very low milage and runs great so would I be best just leaving my top end as is. Also what other heads and pistons have people been using? Thanks in advance.

_________________
Buell S1 Lightning
Triumph Rocket3
Suzuki GT750
Kawasaki H1B
Honda 400 Four
Kawasaki Z1300 ( current project)


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 11:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 12:06 am
Posts: 1856
Current ride: S1W,S2T,1125CR,XB12X
Location: North Bucks
You can't rely on me for technical guidance but, as someone who was selling the S1 Lightning and then the S1W White Lightning with Thunderstorm heads when it was introduced, there was a claimed increase of 10 BHP. Seat of the pants dyno agreed with this so when I had the opportunity to buy an ex-demo S1 or S1W there was no question. Still have the old girl now and she's acquired a few more ponies since. The Mikuni didn't add much in terms of power but great rideability straight out of the box.

Steve

_________________
Back on the road again!


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 12:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:27 pm
Posts: 833
OP - You may find XB heads** perhaps easier to come across? They are considered possibly the best XL Sportster cyclinder head as stock. Also, they work just fine with the flat top pistons in a standard S1 motor. There's a few folks around who've done this swap. If you wish to do a little more research, Hammer Performance have a page plotting the history of XL Sportster/Buell heads from 1991 onwards.

** >04 to 07 XL Sportster heads are similar but black with highlighted fins. I used them on my '97 M2. One day soon, I hope to get it running again. HTH.

_________________
Try doing this to yer fueller...........


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 12:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:43 pm
Posts: 116
Current ride: Buell S1 Lightning
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
03 wrote:
OP - You may find XB heads** perhaps easier to come across? They are considered possibly the best XL Sportster cyclinder head as stock. Also, they work just fine with the flat top pistons in a standard S1 motor. There's a few folks around who've done this swap. If you wish to do a little more research, Hammer Performance have a page plotting the history of XL Sportster/Buell heads from 1991 onwards.

** >04 to 07 XL Sportster heads are similar but black with highlighted fins. I used them on my '97 M2. One day soon, I hope to get it running again. HTH.

Thanks is that from an XB 1200 there seems to be a few about I take it they have the larger valves but retain the original volume?

_________________
Buell S1 Lightning
Triumph Rocket3
Suzuki GT750
Kawasaki H1B
Honda 400 Four
Kawasaki Z1300 ( current project)


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 12:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:27 pm
Posts: 833
ogri211 wrote:
03 wrote:
OP - You may find XB heads** perhaps easier to come across? They are considered possibly the best XL Sportster cyclinder head as stock. Also, they work just fine with the flat top pistons in a standard S1 motor. There's a few folks around who've done this swap. If you wish to do a little more research, Hammer Performance have a page plotting the history of XL Sportster/Buell heads from 1991 onwards.

** >04 to 07 XL Sportster heads are similar but black with highlighted fins. I used them on my '97 M2. One day soon, I hope to get it running again. HTH.

Thanks is that from an XB 1200 there seems to be a few about I take it they have the larger valves but retain the original volume?

XB9 + XB12 heads are the same thing. Worth a read - http://hammerperf.com/ttxlheads.shtml

_________________
Try doing this to yer fueller...........


Last edited by 03 on Mon May 04, 2020 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
 
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 12:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:43 pm
Posts: 116
Current ride: Buell S1 Lightning
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Very interesting read it would appear that the most suitable heads are the XB which would only require the breather carb mount holes to be drilled and tapped, Thanks again for the info.

_________________
Buell S1 Lightning
Triumph Rocket3
Suzuki GT750
Kawasaki H1B
Honda 400 Four
Kawasaki Z1300 ( current project)


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 12:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:27 pm
Posts: 833
ogri211 wrote:
Very interesting read it would appear that the most suitable heads are the XB which would only require the breather carb mount holes to be drilled and tapped, Thanks again for the info.

Correct. Recommended to use XB rocker box covers/breathers. The deck height is lower on the XB heads but that's not an issue really. Also, one of the front motor mount bolts is moved inwards by around 1/4". Not an issue if you get the recommended billet front mount made.

_________________
Try doing this to yer fueller...........


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 12:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:43 pm
Posts: 116
Current ride: Buell S1 Lightning
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Thanks, I think I will look out for heads, I allready have the billet mount but Im sure I could either modify it or someone from here could use it if I have to get a new one.

_________________
Buell S1 Lightning
Triumph Rocket3
Suzuki GT750
Kawasaki H1B
Honda 400 Four
Kawasaki Z1300 ( current project)


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 3:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 7:54 pm
Posts: 2808
Current ride: 1999 X1
Location: Texas, Gerrards Cross
That would be the only thing that would add much cost. The billet mount adapting to the XB heads can be costly be it is pretty. Other than that, you'll need a new ignition map.

The original S1 from 96-97 had the same heads and camshafts as a S2 I had, N4 IIRC. On a Dynojet 150 inertia dyno, the S2 dyno'd at 72 RWHP. A Screaming Chicken ignition module set to map 4 brought that up to 81 RWHP immediately. Lightning heads were a little better as has been said. My stock X1 with basically the same cams as the N4 dyno'd at 89 RWHP, so the Lightning heads added about 8 RWHP but I'm sure some of that had to do with the fuel injection and a better map. And I've seen graphs of XB heads bringing another 3 RWHP over what other mods were done to a bike.

But XB heads alone may lose something somewhere without a better set of cams and the right map. But everyone else is right that XB heads will be easier to find than Lightning heads. New old stock ran out 3 or 4 years ago and guys like Hammer Performance couldn't source them anymore.

_________________
Bob Krzeszkiewicz
2011 Kawasaki Z1000SX - 1999 Buell X1


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 5:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:43 pm
Posts: 116
Current ride: Buell S1 Lightning
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Thanks , you are saying that the cams in my 96 are different from the X1 I thought all the S1's had the same cams, the ones similar to the N4, if that was the case and the XB heads were better that the TS ones that would leave just the ignition map, as there is no fuel injection, my question then has anyone stuck a set of XB heads on an early S1 and if so how good was it.

_________________
Buell S1 Lightning
Triumph Rocket3
Suzuki GT750
Kawasaki H1B
Honda 400 Four
Kawasaki Z1300 ( current project)


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 6:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 7:54 pm
Posts: 2808
Current ride: 1999 X1
Location: Texas, Gerrards Cross
When I say original S1, I meant the tube frame not the fuel in frame XB-S. XB cams are different...more lift and narrower lobe timing for EPA but reducing valve overlap. Being taller and narrower, I hear clatter at higher rpms if you play there. The S1 cam should be the same as an X1. When I got my 1st X1, it was a 2000 and the cam was a different part number than 1999. But I think the lift is similar but I don't know for sure if any of the profile and timing is any different. I've never seen a spec sheet on the cam. I've always used the SE536 in my bikes mainly because I built a Pro-Thunder spec bike once and liked how they felt. The Thunderstorm heads were built with using these in mind for the Pro-Thunder race series, so, it really wakes up the engine.

_________________
Bob Krzeszkiewicz
2011 Kawasaki Z1000SX - 1999 Buell X1


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 1:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:27 pm
Posts: 833
ogri211 wrote:
Thanks , you are saying that the cams in my 96 are different from the X1 I thought all the S1's had the same cams, the ones similar to the N4, if that was the case and the XB heads were better that the TS ones that would leave just the ignition map, as there is no fuel injection, my question then has anyone stuck a set of XB heads on an early S1 and if so how good was it.

Don't worry, they're a bolt on addition. No need to do anything with camshafts or ignition.

_________________
Try doing this to yer fueller...........


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 8:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:43 pm
Posts: 116
Current ride: Buell S1 Lightning
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
03 wrote:
ogri211 wrote:
Thanks , you are saying that the cams in my 96 are different from the X1 I thought all the S1's had the same cams, the ones similar to the N4, if that was the case and the XB heads were better that the TS ones that would leave just the ignition map, as there is no fuel injection, my question then has anyone stuck a set of XB heads on an early S1 and if so how good was it.

Don't worry, they're a bolt on addition. No need to do anything with camshafts or ignition.



Thanks Thats what I want to hear sometimes on these forums you get to much info.

_________________
Buell S1 Lightning
Triumph Rocket3
Suzuki GT750
Kawasaki H1B
Honda 400 Four
Kawasaki Z1300 ( current project)


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 9:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:43 pm
Posts: 116
Current ride: Buell S1 Lightning
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
There seems to be a lot of rear heads for sale is there a reason why there are more of them about?

_________________
Buell S1 Lightning
Triumph Rocket3
Suzuki GT750
Kawasaki H1B
Honda 400 Four
Kawasaki Z1300 ( current project)


Top
   
 
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 9:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 6:43 pm
Posts: 2673
Current ride: S1`s
Location: Llanelli South Wales
If you have a crash, the engine mount rips the bolt out of the front head. Bolt can work loose and feck it that way too.


Top
   
 
 [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited