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XB CRANK REFURBS
https://ukbeg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16371		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  WILLYBUELL [ 13 Feb 2013 23:52 ]
Post subject:  XB CRANK REFURBS
this evening me n von picked up the one piece cages n rollers von has had made for my XB cranks ,in the pictures you will see increased number of rollers in vons cages ,giveing higher dynamick load figures,more rolllers will stablise the rods to a higher degree ,more but smaller OD rollers mean less rotating mass per roller in the big end :yup: ooa a pic of the great man himself at work ,this retro fit may become available in the near future to forum members

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Author:  pash [ 14 Feb 2013 06:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: XB CRANK REFURBS
What are you doing about con-rods and pin?
Author:  WILLYBUELL [ 14 Feb 2013 12:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: XB CRANK REFURBS
coulpe off ideas at the mo regardig pin mate .havent found any rods to date
Author:  barney [ 14 Feb 2013 16:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: XB CRANK REFURBS
sorry willy just couldn't help it
WILLYBUELL wrote:
.havent found any rods to date

You’re leaving it a bit late on Valentine’s Day, you might be lucky and finds a couple of Herbert’s or Gilberts about :idea:
Author:  WILLYBUELL [ 14 Feb 2013 18:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: XB CRANK REFURBS
Gonr riiiight over my head today mate .still lov ya though :D
Author:  WILLYBUELL [ 13 Mar 2013 23:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: XB CRANK REFURBS
time marches on slowly .right von now has a working big end refurb set up for early XB,s and tuber taper cranks regarding bearings .the pics show the set up for XB,s regarding pin ,the pin is a slightly oversized on the flywheel sides to accomadate for strained or broched flywheels, the pins will be made from EN 36 ,case hardened 40 thou deep and as stated above, slightly oversize to accomadate danged flywheels ,pins will be finnised to size in house ,bearing cage are of vons design and one piece for strength and will be copper then silver plated and de-embrittled to def standerd ,i will fit one in grumbly and another in my spare motor ,normski in newark will get the first set on a taper pin crank ,the pin in the pics is a working mock up

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Author:  Adam [ 13 Mar 2013 23:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: XB CRANK REFURBS
Got me thinking , this has :? Is there any optimum ratio for the diameter of the rollers in relation to the diameter of the crankpin, or is it just based on the load and speed the bearing is subjected to?
Author:  WILLYBUELL [ 14 Mar 2013 00:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: XB CRANK REFURBS
Adam wrote:
Got me thinking , this has :? Is there any optimum ratio for the diameter of the rollers in relation to the diameter of the crankpin, or is it just based on the load and speed the bearing is subjected to?

will ask brian tomoz mate ,one thing is for sure the more rollers the better to a point, a roller at say 12, 3, 6 and 9 oclock has a lower working life than say 12 ,1,30, 3, 4,30, 6, 7.30, 9, 10.30 on a cock face ,recon you can see were this is going mate ;) :D :D
Author:  x1glider [ 14 Mar 2013 04:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: XB CRANK REFURBS
Smaller rollers are experiencing more surface feet per minute. 6 or 1/2 dozon of another. Without testing, you can't really make assumptions that more rolllers spreading the load will last longer. Kinda like the oil pump drive gear jig you built. What are you going to figure out that the MofoCo hasn't already done?
Author:  pash [ 14 Mar 2013 05:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: XB CRANK REFURBS
x1glider wrote:
Smaller rollers are experiencing more surface feet per minute. 6 or 1/2 dozon of another. Without testing, you can't really make assumptions that more rolllers spreading the load will last longer.

The art of bearing application is well past the point of 'suck it and see'. For the engines that my employer designs and produces, there are design standards for (roller) bearing application and there will be for any application based on surface speed, load, number of rollers etc. The problem that Willy has for his application is the limitations on pin size and big end eye size, hence, unless I have missed the point (which is quite possible), Willy is increasing the number of rollers but maintaining their diameter. He is doing this by redesigning the cage, and even for a numpty like me, it is clear to see, as Willy points out, the more rollers, the more surface area to dissipate the load and the lower the load per roller.

x1glider wrote:
Kinda like the oil pump drive gear jig you built. What are you going to figure out that the MofoCo hasn't already done?

Could have said that about Buell too, but in 08 they created a crank with a big pin in answer to crank failures in service. Surely the MoCo had done and dusted the crank, just as they had other components that Buell re-engineered.

I say full marks to Willy for getting Mr Von Shackleford interested in such a project.

Now, questions for Willy...

Why is the cage going to be silver plated?

Will the crank webs have to be bored at the big end to take the oversized pin?

Are you addressing the oil feed holes in the pin?
Author:  x1glider [ 14 Mar 2013 05:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: XB CRANK REFURBS
What I'm not understanding is what exactly is Willy's problem and therefore his application needs for a custom roller cage. Perhaps I missed a separate thread.
Author:  pash [ 14 Mar 2013 06:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: XB CRANK REFURBS
What a BE, I can't read, the rollers are smaller and there's more of them... :oooops:

This is the original thread Mr Glider:

viewtopic.php?p=206425#p206425
Author:  gunter [ 14 Mar 2013 07:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: XB CRANK REFURBS
pash wrote:
the more rollers, the more surface area to dissipate the load and the lower the load per roller.


But the contact area is getting smaller (according to Hertz's theory), therefore load will increase, smaller rollers turn more often, so a single point gets loaded and unloaded more often and the relation of the roller surface to bearing surface is decreasing, which is increasing tribological stress. I'm only the software guy, but if I had to redesign such bearing, I would vote for larger rollers.
Author:  Adam [ 14 Mar 2013 13:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: XB CRANK REFURBS
WILLYBUELL wrote:
Adam wrote:
Got me thinking , this has :? Is there any optimum ratio for the diameter of the rollers in relation to the diameter of the crankpin, or is it just based on the load and speed the bearing is subjected to?

will ask brian tomoz mate ,one thing is for sure the more rollers the better to a point, a roller at say 12, 3, 6 and 9 oclock has a lower working life than say 12 ,1,30, 3, 4,30, 6, 7.30, 9, 10.30 on a cock face ,recon you can see were this is going mate ;) :D :D



..........and don't call me 'cock face' lOl
Author:  pash [ 14 Mar 2013 14:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: XB CRANK REFURBS
:run:
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