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Parts Bin Special? https://ukbeg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21047	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Mickrick [ 31 Dec 2015 18:20 ]
Post subject:	Parts Bin Special?
Happy new year peeps! I seem to remember reading somewhere that the XB crank has a bigger pin than the X1, therefore it's apparently stiffer. Is this correct? If so, will and XB crank fit into my 2001 X1 cases without modifying the cases? I'm thinking Carrillo rods... How is this lot balanced? I also see folks have fitted XB heads, as they have bigger valves. So, if fitting XB crank and heads to tuber engines is a good Mod. why are XB engines not as reliable, apparently, as a tuber motor? Well that's the impression I get from what I've read. I'm also thinking XB heads with 30 degree domed pistons, and maybe different cams. I had planned to pull my bike apart again this winter, but a new job means it's going to get busy for me until next winter. So, as the Old War Horse is chuffing a bit heavy out of the breathers lately, I thought I may just collect a few bits in anticipation of a full engine strip and rebuild, with a few tweaks to give the Old Girl a bit of extra Oomph. She's not done a lot of miles, only 14000, but I have no history, and she was a shitter when I got her. Opinions or advice anyone?

Author:	DaveH [ 31 Dec 2015 20:29 ]
Post subject:	Re: Parts Bin Special?
If you use xb heads then you must be xb pistons but there is scope for increasing the squish band. Pash did a good write up of this. Use the the search facility it'll turn up. I know my S1 has a heavier crank than my xb but the main difference is the tuber crank has a plain pinion bearing and the xb has a roller bearing crank. That makes for a big job if it's possible at all. Maz would clarify if it's doable. I'm sure there will be other difference's too. Pm the chief for a definitive answer

Author:	TOPGUMM [ 31 Dec 2015 20:48 ]
Post subject:	Re: Parts Bin Special?
Mickrick wrote: why are XB engines not as reliable, apparently, as a tuber motor? Well that's the impression I get from what I've read. Is it that the xb`s need the cases splitting to deal with gearbox issues that make them expensive to repair? Do they rev higher? Do they float in water?

Author:	pash [ 31 Dec 2015 21:16 ]
Post subject:	Re: Parts Bin Special?
Bigger pin on 08/09/10 XBs. I have XB heads on my S1 and I really like them. I have some other XB heads that will have a 10 deg squish machined in to match some Wiseco pistons I have in some XB jugs.

Author:	TOPGUMM [ 31 Dec 2015 23:02 ]
Post subject:	Re: Parts Bin Special?
Xb jugs

Author:	WILLYBUELL [ 01 Jan 2016 10:32 ]
Post subject:	Re: Parts Bin Special?
Mickrick wrote: Happy new year peeps! I seem to remember reading somewhere that the XB crank has a bigger pin than the X1, therefore it's apparently stiffer. Is this correct? If so, will and XB crank fit into my 2001 X1 cases without modifying the cases? I'm thinking Carrillo rods... How is this lot balanced? I also see folks have fitted XB heads, as they have bigger valves. So, if fitting XB crank and heads to tuber engines is a good Mod. why are XB engines not as reliable, apparently, as a tuber motor? Well that's the impression I get from what I've read. I'm also thinking XB heads with 30 degree domed pistons, and maybe different cams. I had planned to pull my bike apart again this winter, but a new job means it's going to get busy for me until next winter. So, as the Old War Horse is chuffing a bit heavy out of the breathers lately, I thought I may just collect a few bits in anticipation of a full engine strip and rebuild, with a few tweaks to give the Old Girl a bit of extra Oomph. She's not done a lot of miles, only 14000, but I have no history, and she was a shitter when I got her. Opinions or advice anyone? engine reliabilaty is dependnt on many thing....oil.....warmup time ..how long and were you rev your engine and run at and build quality ect ect .....reducing piston weight is a must ...your piston at 6800 rpm weights about 1.2 tons at TDC and BDC and this load is being passed through the big end and the mains ....so lighter pistons and 6000 RPM max would drastically extend engine life ...engine spin up time would improve with lighter pistons ....engine tune state ...wot are you after more peak more mid range oaa the list goes on .

Author:	Mickrick [ 01 Jan 2016 10:40 ]
Post subject:	Re: Parts Bin Special?
Thanks for the replies. I realise that willy reliability is a must, but a bit of extra poke wouldn't be missed, and if I pull it apart, I may as well spice things up a bit, it's just a toy So Pash, what difference would it make between a 10 degree and 30 degree squish? Maybe my crank could be modified? Offset the larger pin for a longer stroke mebee? Is there anyone in UK that would be recommended to do crank mods and balancing etc? This company interests me http://vibrationfree.co.uk/ Cheers, Mick.

Author:	Mickrick [ 01 Jan 2016 10:44 ]
Post subject:	Re: Parts Bin Special?
Just found this... http://www.hammerperf.com/xllowerend.sh ... conversion Anyone dealt with them?

Author:

WILLYBUELL [ 01 Jan 2016 11:04 ]

Post subject:

Re: Parts Bin Special?

Mickrick wrote:

Thanks for the replies.
I realise that willy

reliability is a must, but a bit of extra poke wouldn't be missed, and if I pull it apart, I may as well spice things up a bit, it's just a toy

So Pash, what difference would it make between a 10 degree and 30 degree squish?
Maybe my crank could be modified? Offset the larger pin for a longer stroke mebee?

Is there anyone in UK that would be recommended to do crank mods and balancing etc?

This company interests me
http://vibrationfree.co.uk/

Cheers,
Mick.

my balanceing m/c being loaded with a gas turbine rotor :shock:

Attachments:

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Author:	Mickrick [ 01 Jan 2016 11:36 ]
Post subject:	Re: Parts Bin Special?
Nice! I don't think it will fit in my cases though

Author:	WILLYBUELL [ 01 Jan 2016 14:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: Parts Bin Special?
Mickrick wrote: Nice! I don't think it will fit in my cases though were theres a will theres a way

Author:	Mickrick [ 01 Jan 2016 15:26 ]
Post subject:	Re: Parts Bin Special?
Seriously though, I don't want to do any top end work without either beefing up the bottom end, or at least getting it as good as it can be.

Author:	coco [ 01 Jan 2016 16:19 ]
Post subject:	Re: Parts Bin Special?
WILLYBUELL wrote: Mickrick wrote: Nice! I don't think it will fit in my cases though were theres a will theres a way Corrected that for you ......Where theres a Willy theres a way :

Author:	pash [ 01 Jan 2016 17:31 ]
Post subject:	Re: Parts Bin Special?
Mickrick wrote: So Pash, what difference would it make between a 10 degree and 30 degree squish? Maybe my crank could be modified? Offset the larger pin for a longer stroke mebee? So Mickrick, here's my opinions... Squish helps combustion by introducing turbulence by forcing the mixture into the centre of the combustion chamber, the turbulence results in a more disordered flame front (or reaction zone) which enables more fuel and air to react and hence burn quicker. This means you can reduce the advance and reduce the fight against the piston as it comes up to TDC. What is the best squish angle? 10? 15? 30? It depends on combustion chamber design and as ever there is always a design point, the general rule of thumb is that the higher the target engine speed for peak performance (torque), the higher the squish angle. You will read in lots of places how poor the squish band is on the Thunderstorm heads, they are roughly cast rather than machined to match the piston, and more interestingly, the squish bands are nominally 15 deg in the head whereas the piston has a 10 deg squish angle. The XB heads have a zero squish band angle, but as the squish band is machined (the deck of the head) you can set this up quite accurately, and following advice from those that know, the target clearance is 0.03 inches or 0.75mm. My two S1s have XB heads (you need a different front engine mount), the black one has done around 15k miles in the configuration. It was a very clear improvement over the Lightning heads (pre-Thunderstorm) and doing top gear roll-ons with another forum member with his well set-up carbed X1 (Mukuni, Forcewinder plus Pro Race exhaust on both bikes), the S1 clearly accelerated faster. The black S1 and I spent an afternoon with Tubbs on his dyno, where we actually ran out of main jets (I am a size up on when we left the dyno). I am using a Dynatek 2ki ignition unit on curve 4 and I'm pretty sure I am a little way away from optimising the ignition timing. The bike made 95hp (corrected), which isn't that much really. Beef's, with the 1250 kit made 105 IIRC, and there are plenty of other people on here who have reliable engines with big bore kits and big numbers. Indeed, our very own Tubbs is no stranger to tuning Buells. My X1 runs like a dream, I'm pretty sure the S1 is faster, but what I did do was lop 0.9mm off the head (not much thought at the time as I was feeling no love for the bike) which was the depth of the step in the head from the face to the squish band. Still using standard push rods. Again, I am pretty sure I could make it run better but it runs very sweetly indeed so no rush. In terms of cranks and pins and stuff, I have not touched the bottom end (apart from change the oil pump gear and my other S1 has SE536 cams but I have not ridden it much). What would I do? If I concentrated on the X1, I would machine a set of XB heads to match 10 deg squish pistons, maybe put some SE536 cams in and then play on the dyno for a day tinkering with ignition timing and fueling. I would be welding slave lambda bosses on the headers. The SE536 cams have quite a high lift at TDC on the exhaust, however they appeared to be favourites with NRHS (pre-Hammer Performance) and didn't give much away to the 575s however the beauty of the 536s is that they have less lift than the XB cams and they have a longer overlap, which suggests that the valve acceleration is lower hence the valve train gets an easier time so should be more reliable than on an XB. Maz doesn't like XB heads as (amongst other things) they have a beehive spring (rather than a pair) which he has seen fail (but the dual springs fail too) and the valve stem is 6mm rather than 1/4" IIRC.

Author:	Mickrick [ 01 Jan 2016 18:05 ]
Post subject:	Re: Parts Bin Special?
Ooh! Thank you Sir! So to wrap it all up, I should keep my eyes peeled for some XB heads, and speak to Tubbs?

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