I see, so its not just down to the rotation, its about the movement of the bearings behind.
Gotcha
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| The laws of leverage, on a clutch... https://ukbeg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21057 |
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| Author: | FerrisBueller [ 05 Jan 2016 13:31 ] |
| Post subject: | The laws of leverage, on a clutch... |
http://speed-of-color.de/index.php?cat= ... t=XBAT-006 This little clutch cable lever, as far as I can tell, is simply longer which will make it easier to pull. And this is what it claims, so all is good. But, with a longer lever, you will need to pull it further at the lever (in your hand) to achieve the same degree of rotation at the clutch. Am I right? So is this what has to happen once this is installed; you need to pull the clutch lever hard against your bars, or is there something else to it that I'm missing? |
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| Author: | Nutah [ 05 Jan 2016 17:36 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The laws of leverage, on a clutch... |
maybe also has a different angle ramp that the balls run in i think muller ? did a similar "power clutch" .... https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mulle ... A1gQsAQIIg |
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| Author: | FerrisBueller [ 05 Jan 2016 22:40 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The laws of leverage, on a clutch... |
I see, so its not just down to the rotation, its about the movement of the bearings behind. Gotcha
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| Author: | kevmean [ 06 Jan 2016 19:12 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The laws of leverage, on a clutch... |
I believe some of the cheaper makes of easy pull clutches rely on just a longer arm which has you say means you have to be careful with adjustment because lever needs to be pulled further in towards the handlebars but also they sometimes put the inner cable in a position where it may rub against the outer at the primary cover end, the better versions also use a different ball ramp angle to reduce effort without the downsides. Best option is to get stronger hands
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| Author: | barney [ 06 Jan 2016 19:20 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The laws of leverage, on a clutch... |
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-40kg-HAND- ... SwT6pVsg21 |
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| Author: | DrBuella [ 06 Jan 2016 19:35 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The laws of leverage, on a clutch... |
barney wrote: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-40kg-HAND-STRENGTH-POWER-GRIP-ADJUSTABLE-EXERCISER-FOREARM-WRIST-HANDS-/251947860169?hash=item3aa94340c9:g:5qEAAOSwT6pVsg21 OR kill 2 birds with one stone...................... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/X-Factor-12-V ... SwQoFWQIv2 
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| Author: | FerrisBueller [ 06 Jan 2016 20:44 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The laws of leverage, on a clutch... |
I've been working on stronger hands since I was 12, although that's just my right hand, dang. 
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| Author: | jiltedjohn [ 06 Jan 2016 20:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The laws of leverage, on a clutch... |
Can you get your balls in aswell ? |
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| Author: | hondapaul [ 09 Feb 2016 23:48 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The laws of leverage, on a clutch... |
Used to rebuild/modify a bike or three in the past and one thing, amongst many, I noticed is that manufacturers did not make clutch perches with the same distance between the lever pivot and the cable nipple.... Something, maybe, you had not considered..... Did notice the longer pivot/pull type often came with dog leg levers so you can still reach them... Radial placement of the nipple to pivot makes a difference to as some pull over centre, think 1 O,clock placement, and are harder on the initial pull than one that's on, or left of, centre... Fitting an longer "easy pull" arm can be offset somewhat by fitting a lever with a bigger pivot/nipple distance... The clutch cable on the Uly pulled in an arc that caused it to wear a groove in the perch... Not the best idea... "Nothing is ever as simple as it appears..." |
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| Author: | rik [ 10 Feb 2016 09:59 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The laws of leverage, on a clutch... |
hondapaul wrote: Used to rebuild/modify a bike or three in the past and one thing, amongst many, I noticed is that manufacturers did not make clutch perches with the same distance between the lever pivot and the cable nipple.... Something, maybe, you had not considered..... Did notice the longer pivot/pull type often came with dog leg levers so you can still reach them... Radial placement of the nipple to pivot makes a difference to as some pull over centre, think 1 O,clock placement, and are harder on the initial pull than one that's on, or left of, centre... Fitting an longer "easy pull" arm can be offset somewhat by fitting a lever with a bigger pivot/nipple distance... The clutch cable on the Uly pulled in an arc that caused it to wear a groove in the perch... Not the best idea... "Nothing is ever as simple as it appears..."  ...and the simple law of levers is that you get nothing for nothing... ie the trade off for reduced effort will mean increased travel... the travel of the clutch lever is limited by the length of your fingers to grab it in the first place, even if it's cranked it'll still hit the handlebar!
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| Author: | Finmows [ 10 Feb 2016 11:02 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The laws of leverage, on a clutch... |
DrBueller wrote: OR kill 2 birds with one stone...................... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/X-Factor-12-V ... SwQoFWQIv2 No adult sized ones? |
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| Author: | Adam [ 10 Feb 2016 14:05 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The laws of leverage, on a clutch... |
rik wrote: hondapaul wrote: Used to rebuild/modify a bike or three in the past and one thing, amongst many, I noticed is that manufacturers did not make clutch perches with the same distance between the lever pivot and the cable nipple.... Something, maybe, you had not considered..... Did notice the longer pivot/pull type often came with dog leg levers so you can still reach them... Radial placement of the nipple to pivot makes a difference to as some pull over centre, think 1 O,clock placement, and are harder on the initial pull than one that's on, or left of, centre... Fitting an longer "easy pull" arm can be offset somewhat by fitting a lever with a bigger pivot/nipple distance... The clutch cable on the Uly pulled in an arc that caused it to wear a groove in the perch... Not the best idea... "Nothing is ever as simple as it appears..." ...and the simple law of levers is that you get nothing for nothing... ie the trade off for reduced effort will mean increased travel... the travel of the clutch lever is limited by the length of your fingers to grab it in the first place, even if it's cranked it'll still hit the handlebar!Spot on Rik. You get don't get owt for nowt with Physics 
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| Author: | x1glider [ 10 Feb 2016 16:53 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The laws of leverage, on a clutch... |
The balls in the Muller are seated in a smaller diameter about the shaft centerline than OEM and as it rotates, that diameter gets smaller (decreasing radius turn ). The ramp angle and distance the balls travel in their groove is about the same as OEM but since it decreases in diameter as it rotates, it effectively increases leverage by getting closer to the shaft centerline and requires less angular travel. The decreasing radius is nice because it allows better modulation of the clutch in the early part of the squeeze. It's kind of like "let off" on a bow with cams. I can't remember, but I think the cable hook on the Muller is further from the centerline as well. But, IMO, that just requires increased lever travel to get the same angular rotation of the Muller. But since the ball grooves are closer to the centerline than OEM, that gets negated. So I don't know why they did that. I think the Muller is a pretty good product. I put one in my buddy's XR1200R last year and he was ecstatic. |
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| Author: | Finmows [ 10 Feb 2016 18:21 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The laws of leverage, on a clutch... |
Correct me if I'm wrong (which I undoubtedly will be) but isn't the Muller device in fact an actuator? |
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| Author: | pash [ 10 Feb 2016 18:39 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The laws of leverage, on a clutch... |
Both wrong, it's a yoghurt... |
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