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Steering mod 1125r CR
https://ukbeg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25375		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Jazzbutcher [ 06 Aug 2023 17:52 ]
Post subject:  Steering mod 1125r CR
Hi folks,
Just made these sleeves to replace the very expensive (if you can find them) steering bearings in my 1125r. I’ve only made one so far, either top or bottom as they’re the same but produced on my little Myford ML10 lathe (really found out why I should ‘ve bought a better lathe in the process).
But anyway the bearings are still produced (unlike the Nice 38s) that are standard and I’m quite pleased with the results. I also had to machine .4 of a mm off the steering stem to fit the bearings. Not tried them out yet but it’s looking positive at the moment.
Cost very little to make and the bearings are cheap which means more petrol in my tank. See pics.

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Author:  brother in buells [ 07 Aug 2023 00:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Steering mod 1125r CR
Looking forward to the end result , because the buell XB and 1125 steering head bearings and adjustment are kind of special.
If not adjusted properly the risk of a tank slapper is big!

I know some that have changed over to conical roller bearings and had problems with getting the steering properly.
So I hope you get it working in good order!
Author:  Jazzbutcher [ 07 Aug 2023 10:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Steering mod 1125r CR
Yeah,
Thanks for the info about taper rollers. I looked for tapers but couldn't find any that I could make fit without having to machine the bearing outers, which is practically impossible with the engineering kit I have on hand. I much prefer ball bearings on the steering anyway.

I'm just an experimenting with what I can find and modify to fit at the moment. If these work it'll be a bonus, if not I'll have to try something else. I've found some needle rollers that are the same dimensions as the ones I've used so I can give them a shot in the same sleeves with spacing to fit at minimal cost.

I have a year till the next MOT but they were pointed out on this last one although not bad enough for a fail.

I will definitely keep you informed of the results and thanks for your interest.

Paul.
Author:  Jazzbutcher [ 11 Aug 2023 14:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Steering mod 1125r CR
Aye well,

On the right track I think but this project doesn't work with those bearings.
Shame, but kept me busy for a few days & I learned quite a few new skills on the lathe to boot, so pleased enough with my efforts.

Also learned that if I'm gonna keep trying stuff like this, a better lathe would be good idea, which is no bad thing as I really enjoy working on them.

As it goes my other Buell which is to my great sadness is very quickly becoming a donor, now suffers another loss as the bearings in that one are fine. Well, I did have to remove them as I tried this project out on that bike. So I'll stick those in my runner for the next MOT if I haven't sorted anything out by then.

All the best folks. Paul.
Author:  Jazzbutcher [ 11 Aug 2023 19:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Steering mod 1125r CR
Well, here's a thing, upon dismantling the top yokes, I decided while I was at it, to try the bearings without the seals and seal spacers as (they were overkill anyway). The bearing top cup is a very close fit in the bearing seats and seals itself really. Just being over zealous using seals I guess. So it looks like it may have been the seals that were the problem, not enough spacing because I needed to leave enough thread for the fork top nut. Should have thought that through a bit more but on the up side, I now know and it's given me another 4mm thread on the top nut.

I may also trim a mil or so off each of the bearing seat flanges & the bearing bottom seats so I can grab some more top nut thread, but that will be after my test runs.

Now though, it's all mounted and adjusted up again and seems to be working fine. So come Sunday I'll transfer them onto my runner and try a few runs to settle everything in and work out the best torque setting on the go. At the moment though, there's no play and it looks like it may work after all.

Watch this space.

All the best. Paul.
Author:  Jazzbutcher [ 15 Aug 2023 11:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Steering mod 1125r CR
Right then, had some new tyres (Diablo 2s) fitted to my spare silver wheels & changed the rear wheel bearings for SKFs yesterday, front ones feel fine, so was ready to swap them over whilst doing the steering head bearings.
Started this morning at 9.30ish with a clear run at the steering conversion. Thought it would take me longer to be honest but done by 11.40 & ready for it's first test run later (if the weather stays fine). Changed the front wheel just a case of slotting it in, I'll do the rear later this week I guess.
All in all pretty straight forward job with no snags.
Just gonna walk my collies have a bit of lunch & then I'll get out and try it.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Have a great day folks. Paul.
Author:  Jazzbutcher [ 15 Aug 2023 13:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Steering mod 1125r CR
Ok then.
First test run, serious low speed roll, I stopped and let some pressure off the bearings and this improved to practically zero roll but also very slight juddering under braking. Too loose but the adjustments are really tiny and setting with a set of hex keys whilst out and about isn't going to cut it. It seems to works ok though but the torque settings are going to be more difficult to suss than I first imagined.

Still, hands off from 70mph down to 30mph no roll, weave or drift but slight juddering under braking.

Done for today though as I'm out tonight and need a shower.

I'll keep you informed.

All the best Paul.
Author:  Jazzbutcher [ 18 Aug 2023 12:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Steering mod 1125r CR
So, I scrapped the idea with the three piece thrust bearings, just too difficult to set up, within 1 Nm either too tight or play evident.

Rebuilt the front end again this time using deep groove ball rollers with rubber seals and just by the way it feels, without even taking a run out, it seems like I'm gonna have the same problem with these. The really irritating thing is, that it all looks like it should work, but it just doesn't.

It is though, also very likely that my engineering skills plus the lathe I'm using are just not up to the standard required for a job like this, especially as both frame sleeves were produced separately so could be out of alignment on the bearing surfaces inside the sleeves, which would make them nip.

More likely, is the fact that Erik Buell picked those particular bearings using all of his racing experience to make the bike handle like it does and it's just a pain that they stopped making them.

Although I'm obviously disappointed with both results, it was great experience using the lathe & trying stuff out though.

So it looks like I'll be using the standard Nice 38s I took out of my other 1125r.

Have a great day folks.
Author:  barney [ 19 Aug 2023 07:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Steering mod 1125r CR
if at first you don't succeed then try , try again , that's what R & D is all about .
take you time with machining , get the limits and fit and clearance right , and make sure it's all running concentric .
Author:  Nutah [ 19 Aug 2023 08:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Steering mod 1125r CR
:yt: x2 :yup:
Author:  Jazzbutcher [ 19 Aug 2023 09:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Steering mod 1125r CR
Thanks for the encouragement guys. I had an idea last night, should've thought about this before.

The alloy bearing holder centre bore is 26mm which clears the steering stem and was fine for the flat faces of the thrust bearings. This is not the case with the deep groove bearings inners. What I think may be happening with these, is that the inner races are tightening against the alloy holder due to lack of clearance.

Yeah, I know it seems obvious and it may still not work either, but this will be the 3rd time I've had the front end stripped and just putting the standard bearings in is very tempting at this point.

Then again, it's only a couple of hours to strip it again and an hour or so machining to try this last attempt. After that I'm done and then maybe I'll get an engineer to do the inserts for me.

I am also keenly aware that this mod may keep many other 1125r Crs on the road in the future if I can get it to work. How ever many Nice 38 bearings are left, won't last long & it's a MOT fail.

So here goes. Watch this space.

Have a great day Folks. Paul.
Author:  Jazzbutcher [ 19 Aug 2023 15:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Steering mod 1125r CR
Right then.

I bored out the centres of the bearing sleeves to 30mm and set a 15 mm step that's 10mm bigger so the bearing centres can bear into them. I put 30 Nm torque onto the steering bearings when the whole front end was back in place.

1st test run with this set up was extremely positive, no roll, weave, knocking or anything out of the ordinary. The bike handled fine although the new front tyre didn't help any.

It's looks like this set up is going to work fine. Obviously not spot on yet but with a bit of twiddling with torque settings it should be rideable for the next week or so.

Really though, because I wasn't sure any of this would work or not, or know which bearings would work, the tolerances of the sleeves can all now be a little bit tighter. I also used cheap Dunlop bearings to try everything out which will have an impact on longevity.

So, with what I've learned from this project, I'm going to make two new bearing sleeves paying particular attention to the bearing size & depth & shorten the bearing housings.

I've already got some SKF bearings on order (now I know they'll work) and plenty of 50mm alloy bar to work with. This only leaves the problem of my Myford ML 10 lathe. I did learn quite a bit about the lathes limitations and how to counter them effectively enough, but we'll see.

Anyway this setup works fine. If anyone's interested I'll pass on details re measurements, bearing sizes, final torque settings etc. when I've finalised the project.

Happy for now.

Have a great day folks. Paul.
Author:  brother in buells [ 19 Aug 2023 21:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Steering mod 1125r CR
I'm still looking over here to see if you made progress!
So waiting for the final conclusion and hoping on a good result. :worthy: :yup:

Making this kind of things take time ,so take it!
Cheers
Author:  Jazzbutcher [ 19 Aug 2023 23:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Steering mod 1125r CR
brother in buells wrote:
I'm still looking over here to see if you made progress!
So waiting for the final conclusion and hoping on a good result. :worthy: :yup:

Making this kind of things take time ,so take it!
Cheers


Yeah, sorry, I probably wasn't clear as my enthusiasm for the project was very high, I'd just been out on the bike and got the best results so far.

It all works fine but it was a rough experiment at this stage using cheap bearings because I wasn't sure which would work. I was also on a very steep learning curve with my lathe skills.

I'm now hoping to do a better job of the bearing sleeves taking much more care of machining accuracy & using better bearings, now I know that it does work with the materials I've used and my experience from doing the project so far.

Shouldn't be too long till it's finalised as I'm already making new tooling for my lathe. I'll post a final update when I'm happy with the end product.

The only thing I'm can't be sure about is longevity but obviously time will tell.

Thanks for you're interest. Paul.
Author:  kevmean [ 20 Aug 2023 21:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Steering mod 1125r CR
Just a thought but what bearings do the EBR's use?
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