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WILLYBUELL
 Post subject: OIL PUMP GEAR FAILURE
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2012 23:34 
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Think Pink
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been doing sum investigating as to why these gears fail ,in the first picture look at the chamfer on the oil pump drive gear ,the lower edge of the chamfer looks below the center line of the crankshaft ,being this low, the load side of the oil pump gear MAY be acting like scraper on the oil pump drive gear on the cranksahft ,slowly scraping the case hardening away untill its gone leaveing soft steel which will be worn away very rapidly .in the second pic ,i have removed the gasket from the oil pump and taken all the end float out of the oil pump shaft,now the gear looks better in relation to the center line of the crankshaft ,but its very hard to see in situ IF the load side of the chamfer is high enough to not act as a scraper ,i CANT prove the above because even with a magnifing glass its hard to tell if im right ,so i have elected on rebuild to run without a gasket and will machining 1.5 mm off the body of the oil pump to help put the gear more on center line with the crankshaft ,RIGHT thats the aligment sorted what about the hardness of the crank drive gear ,NOT A HOPE IN HELL of giveing a usfull service like ,sum real clever peeps round brians last night ,consensus was that the failed gear SHOULD have a hardness of min 58 rockwell ,WELL failed gear gave 48 rockwell ,NO WHERE NEAR ENOUGH ,this statement is held up buy the fact that lucky hands gear is 62-64 rockwell ,VERY hard ,food for thought maybee ooa last pic brians rockweel tester :yup: :D :D


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Maz
 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP GEAR FAILER
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2012 23:48 
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Oil pressure relief valve :idea:

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WILLYBUELL
 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP GEAR FAILER
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012 00:06 
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Think Pink
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the only thing in can see is in the adaptor for the oil filter ,need enlightning here,

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daywalker
 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP GEAR FAILER
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012 00:27 
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Wasn't this the conclusion that the Badweatherbikers were reaching that the gears were not properly aligned hence the rapid wear?

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Maz
 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP GEAR FAILER
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012 00:31 
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Up to 08 engines, there is no oil pressure relief valve, which is why the drive gears fail :idea:

Rather than regurgitating the half digested wisdom you get from Mr. Von S, why dont you get him to post directly.......that way we could engage in a proper conversation.....I'm also sure his command of the english written word would come as a refreshing change to yours :)

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WILLYBUELL
 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP GEAR FAILER
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012 00:40 
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right the only relef valves i can see are in the lifters .need enlightning

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WILLYBUELL
 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP GEAR FAILER
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012 01:00 
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Think Pink
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Maz wrote:
Up to 08 engines, there is no oil pressure relief valve, which is why the drive gears fail :idea:

Rather than regurgitating the half digested wisdom you get from Mr. Von S, why dont you get him to post directly.......that way we could engage in a proper conversation.....I'm also sure his command of the english written word would come as a refreshing change to yours :)

so the inference here is unregulated pressure is loading the oil pump drives gears causeing excelerated wear ,i see the inherent danger of not haveing some kind of relief in the pressure side but im not buying that this is reason ,dont help haveing chocolate gears in the first place do it ,been as lucky hardens to rockwell 62 plus says it all ,

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WILLYBUELL
 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP GEAR FAILER
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012 01:09 
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Think Pink
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ill have a word with brian about signing up on the forum ,oa buy the way you have an open invite to come down to brians ,perhaps you would like use his tooling and refurb a crank while your here ,he has a few to do ,jap, bsa v twins ,and numarous singles ,pity the velocte with tapers in both side of the cases has gone ,you could have had a go at that ;) :D :D

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motoqueiro
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012 18:20 
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hey willy
how much, do you recon, the gear must rise to align both center's
and, instead of grinding the base of the oil pump, is it possible to rise the pump gear shaft???

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Robin
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012 19:45 
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Looks to me like those teeth in your avitar photo have broken off not worn down?

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barney
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012 19:46 
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many years ago in the garage trade when recon rear axle, we used to put a bit of paint on crown wheel and turn it over to check where it contacted the pinion ( ideal middle of tooth ) :D you could prob do the same here with marking blue :idea:

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GarrCano
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012 20:15 
Robin wrote:
Looks to me like those teeth in your avitar photo have broken off not worn down?


First they wear down, then there comes a moment where they are too thin and not strong enough, so they break. It's the moment when your engine could die.

In the german region, they check the gear every 10,000 or 15,000 miles.

In my Uly2006 with berylium gear, at 14,000 miles it was very worn, so I changed it with a Lucky-Type-Gear. At 30,00 miles the new one was perfect.
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WILLYBUELL
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012 22:39 
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Think Pink
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barney wrote:
many years ago in the garage trade when recon rear axle, we used to put a bit of paint on crown wheel and turn it over to check where it contacted the pinion ( ideal middle of tooth ) :D you could prob do the same here with marking blue :idea:


company i work for barney has tried for years to get that blue without sucsess ,how are you my friend

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Maz
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012 22:42 
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:?: .......I have loadsa 'blue' and have no probs getting it :?

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WILLYBUELL
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2012 22:52 
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motoqueiro wrote:
hey willy
how much, do you recon, the gear must rise to align both center's
and, instead of grinding the base of the oil pump, is it possible to rise the pump gear shaft???

you actually cant get the gears in line as the rear cylinder exaust cam runs quite close to the oil pump gear in the pump ,looked at raising the pump gear shaft ,cant be done . shaft too hard to move the circlip grove and lift the shaft up ,ive got a scrap pump ill try things out on ,will keep you posted :yup:

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