fascinating stuff - i look forward to your final conclusions and ( possibly ) trying out your finished maps.

not sure i will be removing the RH scoop though: in summer here the fan seems to run almost permanently even with it fitted.

i do wonder if i have some pinking going on in summer as well which shouldnt come as too much of a surprise of it is running hot.

I am planning on doing a few quick tests to show effects of changes such as baffle type in, baffles out and the RH scoop on fuelling needs.

My maps will only be of any use to people with a 12 using a Remus with quiet baffles, K&N and 06 airbox

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08 Specialized Langster

A quick report back. That new line in the map at 255 TPS has transformed the bike at WOT, it picks the front wheel up under acceleration at around 4000 with such ferocity that I nearly looped it coming up Bridge Valley Road (a steep twisty hill).

I had a few problems logging, which I am hoping Gunter will help me fix when he gets chance (early next week fingers crossed)...

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08 Specialized Langster

Are you near to getting the feel of the S1 now with the Uly?

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Buell S1
Buell S3 (Topless for now)
Buell XB12S
Piaggio X8 400ie
Yamaha XTZ750 Super Tenere (x2)
Suzuki GSXR750WR
BSA B441VS
FJR1300

At WOT yes, you get that rush as you pass 4000rpm. Not surprising as with the standard maps I was 30% down on fuelling here...

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08 Specialized Langster

do you slowly open the throttle to wide open or just pin it straight back and wait for the revs to pick up ?
reason i'm asking is on my uly it tends to bog down a bit if you just pin the throttle back and load it up , but if you gradually open the throttle, consent acceleration it feels stronger .

ref your "advance the ignition by 5 deg " IIRC back in the 80's when they dumped a load of lead out of the fuel we had to retard them ( them being ford cars ) by about 5 deg to stop pinking , so modern engines probably set on soft side due to crap ( sorry enviromentaly friendly ) fuel, if we only use the high octane stuff then the 5 deg advance should work ok with no problems and if you have to put the cheap stuff in ride it like an old lady keep the rev's / ignition advance down .
Looking forward to sproutfest and meeting you and having a chat over a few beers.

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Buell Ulysses XB12X 06/08

It is a 5 deg advance at idle. Knock happens at WOT at max cylinder pressures.

My roll ons pin the throttle to WOT or 175TPS so I get as much data as possible to mod or validate the line in the table...

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08 Specialized Langster

understand about the 5deg at idle with the map , I was ref to old days on car with mechanical and vac advance , at idle we would reduce timing from say 12deg to about 8deg this would then stop the pinking / knocking /detonation when the car driven in top gear low revs came to a hill and tried to accelerate up whilst in top , low revs at about quarter -half throttle = max vacuum advance .

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Buell Ulysses XB12X 06/08

Some engines are knock limited before you hit the minimum advance for best torque. It depends on the size of the cylinder and combustion chamber design.

My experience of the XB heads (on my S1 of all places) is that you can get max torque throughout the rev range (particularly at low speeds) at WOT without knock. Saying that, the squish clearance is 0.75mm compared to maybe 1.25mm on a standard engine, this results in more turbulence in the combustion chamber and hence faster burning.

My two XBs have the squish clearance they ended up with when they left the factory and they don't knock with 95 ULP, which makes me wonder about the XBs that do knock.

The advance at idle is an opportunity to understand how the engine works. The only load on the engine is the friction of the moving parts. The fuelling is in closed loop, so it will add more fuel to ensure the mixture is stoichiometric. When you increase the advance, you will see the revs increase, this will continue until it stabilises then drops off, you want to be at the point where it is stabilising. This IMO results in a better response just off idle.

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08 Specialized Langster

Went out on Uly this afternoon on a special mission to the Farm Shop. The new map (only WOT) really is addictive and you can feel the power drop off through the rev range at not-quite-WOT.

I am still not able to log the wideband data, that will come next week, and in lieu of this, I trawled through the data I acquired last week and compared the fuelling throughout the WOT range, i.e anything over a TPS of 175, and although I didn't get as much data at the lower TPSes in this band, the lambda at a speed is consistently the same...

This allows me to guessculate (subject to validation with the wideband sensors) the line for 175 TPS:


I have even less data for the OL (non WOT) area so that will have to wait until next week...

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08 Specialized Langster

Whilst hooning around today, I took the Palm with me and logged over Bluetooth to enable me to set up the closed loop area and work towards a more stable AFV.

I took four logs (only two worth talking about) as for some reason I lost connection from time to time


Most of my riding was at between 2000 and 2500RPM (apart from me wheelying it on the throttle )



Earlier run on the way to the farm shop (before the connection dropped out):



Slight differences to the correction needed to closed loop, but the later set of data, presented first, is with a fully warmed up engine...

Next job is to apply these factors to the map...

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08 Specialized Langster

Hello everyone,

First of all, thank you for all the good knowledge that I found in this forum

Second, I'm posting this here because I tough that maybe is usefull to have more related info in the same post, but Pash if you wish I remove it from here and create a new post

And finally, the things that I learnt and the things that I want to ask (maybe is too long )

I have an EU 2009 XB12ss (small headers) in which initially I've installed a Sebring pipe but after breaking so many front clamps I decided to change. Now I have a 2007 header (big one) with a Pro series pipe (the Buell Race) and I also installed a race air filter and the "open air" thing.

Well, after doing this I started to look at the ECM. I have the stock one with modify maps for the Sebring that ran really good (way rich with AFV blocked to 100), but I don't like how it feels with the new pipe and headers, so I decided to try to smooth it.

From a Race 2007 ECM I extrapolated the info so I could have a BUE2D Race fuel and timing maps:





Well with this changes, and leaving the AFV free, the bike run better but I feel some weird vibrations around 3000rpm in more or less all TPS.

So the next thing I've tried is to maintain the timing from the old configuration (I've also checked in other colleagues with modify maps and I found that the timing map was the same, except for the 255 TPS line) so I gave it a try and now I'm using this timing:



What I found is that with this timing the bike run more or less the same, less vibration at 3000rpm (still have some) and some popping when the bike is cold.

With this setup I went for a ride with the laptop. What I found from the logs (sorry I did it in Excel ) is the following:

Hits



EGO



O2 voltage



So now the questions:

Should I use that timing configuration? Reading some other post from Gunter I found a link to the german forum with a timing map that is the same up to 2000 rpm, any ideas? Should I use the stock one increasing the advance in the low TPS?

Concerning the fueling, I don't have a WB sensor so I'll only adjust the close loop. My question is looking at the map I have zones with an EGO near 100 and other up to 120%. I suppose that I should modify little by little with smooth values in adjacent cells. But, should I also increase the OL/WOT area with the % of the same RPM column?

The last question, I promise. With this O2 voltage, I think the bike is not running lean in OL and WOT?

Thanks everyone, hope this post doesn't bother you too much!

PS: I leave below the stock BUE2D maps, I don't know if they are the same as the USA ones:

Hello everyone,

First of all, thank you for all the good knowledge that I found in this forum

Second, I'm posting this here because I tough that maybe is usefull to have more related info in the same post, but Pash if you wish I remove it from here and create a new post

And finally, the things that I learnt and the things that I want to ask (maybe is too long )

I have an EU 2009 XB12ss (small headers) in which initially I've installed a Sebring pipe but after breaking so many front clamps I decided to change. Now I have a 2007 header (big one) with a Pro series pipe (the Buell Race) and I also installed a race air filter and the "open air" thing.

Well, after doing this I started to look at the ECM. I have the stock one with modify maps for the Sebring that ran really good (way rich with AFV blocked to 100), but I don't like how it feels with the new pipe and headers, so I decided to try to smooth it.

From a Race 2007 ECM I extrapolated the info so I could have a BUE2D Race fuel and timing maps:


http://imageshack.us/a/img59/9099/racefuel.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img831/471/racetiming.jpg

Well with this changes, and leaving the AFV free, the bike run better but I feel some weird vibrations around 3000rpm in more or less all TPS.

So the next thing I've tried is to maintain the timing from the old configuration (I've also checked in other colleagues with modify maps and I found that the timing map was the same, except for the 255 TPS line) so I gave it a try and now I'm using this timing:


http://imageshack.us/a/img41/6845/timing1j.jpg

What I found is that with this timing the bike run more or less the same, less vibration at 3000rpm (still have some) and some popping when the bike is cold.

With this setup I went for a ride with the laptop. What I found from the logs (sorry I did it in Excel ) is the following:

Hits


http://imageshack.us/a/img833/2494/hitslog.jpg

EGO


http://imageshack.us/a/img706/596/egolog.jpg

O2 voltage


http://imageshack.us/a/img204/2673/o2log.jpg

So now the questions:

Should I use that timing configuration? Reading some other post from Gunter I found a link to the german forum with a timing map that is the same up to 2000 rpm, any ideas? Should I use the stock one increasing the advance in the low TPS?

Concerning the fueling, I don't have a WB sensor so I'll only adjust the close loop. My question is looking at the map I have zones with an EGO near 100 and other up to 120%. I suppose that I should modify little by little with smooth values in adjacent cells. But, should I also increase the OL/WOT area with the % of the same RPM column?

The last question, I promise. With this O2 voltage, I think the bike is not running lean in OL and WOT?

Thanks everyone, hope this post doesn't bother you too much!

PS: I leave below the stock BUE2D maps, I don't know if they are the same as the USA ones:


http://imageshack.us/a/img228/5226/bue2dstock.jpg


http://imageshack.us/a/img138/7332/bue2dtiming.jpg

¿Que pasa tío?

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08 Specialized Langster

por aquí intentando aprender algo de los sabios...