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 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP TEST RIG
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2013 20:22 
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Think Pink
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ok boys n girls ,this is what im looking for ,1, CC per min at two given RPM, 2 ,CC per min at two give RPM through a 60thou hole which is the size the big end is supplyd through ,also the tests will be done with the oil at.1. workshop temp ,2, 75 degrees c ,also at 40 PSI and 20 PSI ,NOOOOW haveing worked with hydrulics for over 25 year I KNOW WHAT IM DOING :old: ,now rather than explian how the test rig will be set up all will become clear as i build more of it early in the mornings at work before start time ,should have it finnised buy the weekend ,TRUST me all will become clear YEEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAA :D :D

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 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP TEST RIG
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2013 22:26 
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Think Pink
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kevmean wrote:
I think Rik that you'll find with Willy it's not about a need to do ........it's doing if he can ;)

;) :D :D

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 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP TEST RIG
PostPosted: 19 Feb 2013 22:36 
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barney wrote:

The neighbours might get a little bit upset :D




Yes, but not for very long ;) lOl

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 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP TEST RIG
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013 09:44 
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Pink Willy searching for the perfect hole.......... 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP TEST RIG
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013 09:48 
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WILLYBUELL wrote:
ok boys n girls ,this is what im looking for ,1, CC per min at two given RPM, 2 ,CC per min at two give RPM through a 60thou hole which is the size the big end is supplyd through ,also the tests will be done with the oil at.1. workshop temp ,2, 75 degrees c ,also at 40 PSI and 20 PSI ,NOOOOW haveing worked with hydrulics for over 25 year I KNOW WHAT IM DOING :old: ,now rather than explian how the test rig will be set up all will become clear as i build more of it early in the mornings at work before start time ,should have it finnised buy the weekend ,TRUST me all will become clear YEEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAA :D :D

Hi willy understand your interest I assume you will be trying different size Hole's/ Big ends as well viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16372 :yup:

Adam wrote:
barney wrote:

The neighbours might get a little bit upset :D




Yes, but not for very long ;) lOl


:yt: the only problem then ,is those glow in the dark sheep again for a couple of years

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 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP TEST RIG
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013 18:05 
You used to be able to get glow in the dark condoms......must have been for dull f**kers


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 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP TEST RIG
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013 18:47 
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jiltedjohn wrote:
You used to be able to get glow in the dark condoms......must have been for dull f**kers


Not a good marketing tactic really, after you'd used a few, you wouldn't need them any more lOl

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 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP TEST RIG
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013 19:46 
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Think Pink
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ok boys n girls ,early start again today,still a bit o work to do with me test rig ,the 1/4 BSP run tee before the pressure gauge will have a 1/4 to 3/8 BSP male /male adaptor on it, this will be taped to take 8mm st/st grub screws drilled first at 60 thou ,then poss around 100 thou and 120 thou ,the hand valve will be used to regulate the flow which in turn will regulate the pressure and will tell what kind o delivery the big end gets at certain revs n temps out of the first run tee


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 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP TEST RIG
PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013 23:40 
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Current ride: Buell ulysses
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Not wishing to throw a spanner in the works but I was wondering how are you going to simulate the other oil supply / loss areas such as camshafts ,hydraulic lifters , etc. all requiring a flow of oil under pressure
I have found this for my Ully not to sure it’s the same but

OILING SYSTEM 3.14
GENERAL
1. Oil is gravity-fed from the oil reservoir to the gerotor-style oil pump through a feed hose
.
Oil enters the feed section and fills a cavity located under the feed pump.
NOTE
See 3.15 OIL PUMP for a complete explanation of the gerotor pump sets.
2. The feed pump transfers oil from the inlet cavity through the external steel line
to the oil cooler.
3. From the oil cooler oil flows to the oil filter mount.
4. Through the filter mount cavity oil flows to the oil filter.
5. Oil enters the peripheral cavity of the oil filter,passes through the filtering medium into the central cavity of the oil filter, and flows into the filter adapter
(fitting which connects filter to filter mount).
6. Adequate oil pressure in the filter mount cavity activates the oil pressure signal light
switch and shuts off the oil pressure signal light.
7. Oil flowing from the filter adapter opens the check ball.
The check ball opens at 4-6 psi (28-41 kPa) oil pressure.
8. With the check ball open, oil flows into the crankcase feed galley.
9. Oil enters an intersecting passage in the gearcase cover and flow is then routed to the pinion bushing.
10. Oil enters a hole in the end of the pinion gear shaft and travels to the right flywheel where it is routed through the flywheel to the crankpin .
Oil is forced through the crankpin to properly lubricate the rod bearing assembly.
11. Oil flow then continues through the gearcase cover to the
main feed galley at the top of the gearcase cover. Drilled
passages in the crankcase intersect the main feed galley and carry oil to all hydraulic
lifters and piston jets.
12. Oil flows up passages in the push rods to the rocker arm
shafts and bushings.
13. The valve stems are lubricated by oil supplied through drilled oil holes in the rocker arms.
14. Oil collected in the push rod areas of the cylinder heads flows down the push rod cover,
through drain holes in the tappet blocks and into the gearcase. After providing lubrication
to the gearcase components oil returns to the scavenge section of the oil pump through a passage
located in the top of the pump. Oil is then returned to the
oil tank.
15. Feed oil to the rocker area is returned to the crankcase through a passage in the head and cylinder.
16. Oil collected in the sump is splash-fed to the pistons, cylinder walls and flywheel components.
17. A pair of piston oil jets cools the bottoms of the pistons with a spray of oil.
18. Oil collected in the sump area returns to the scavenge section of the oil pump through a passage located in the rear section of the sump. Oil flow to the pump is accomplished
by the scavenging effect of the pump and by the pressure created by the downward stroke of the pistons.
19. Return oil fills a cavity above the pump's return gears. The return gears pump oil back to the oil reservoir.

And may be a little more helpful

OIL PRESSURE
See Figure 3-115. The oil pump is non regulatory and delivers
its entire volume of oil under pressure to the oil filter
mount. When an engine is cold, the engine oil will be more
viscous (i.e., thicker).
When an engine is operated at high speeds, the volume of oil
circulated through the oiling system increases, resulting in
higher oil pressure. As engine speed is reduced, the volume
of oil pumped is also reduced, resulting in lower oil pressure.
To check oil pressure, use OIL PRESSURE GAUGE (Part No.
HD-96921-52B) and OIL PRESSURE GAUGE ADAPTER
(Part No. HD-96940-58). Remove oil pressure indicator
switch and insert pressure gauge fitting.
Ride motorcycle at least 20 miles (32 km) at or above
50 MPH (80 KM/H) until engine oil reaches normal operating
temperature. At 2500 RPM, oil pressure will vary from 10-
17 psi (69-117 kPa). At idle speed (950-1050 RPM), oil pressure
will vary from 7-12 psi (48-83 kPa).

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 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP TEST RIG
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013 12:35 
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Think Pink
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Current ride: Awesome Ulysses & X1
Location: balderton, newark
bear in mind barney .lifters rockers.and oil jets are not classed as losses are they .they are part of the engine that needs feeding oil .no mater what is being fed oil .the pressure maintaind in the system at any revs or temp is what also feeds the big end .this mate is the dater me n von require

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 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP TEST RIG
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013 13:28 
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proff. patpending
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Joined: 06 May 2009 20:20
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Current ride: Victoria Sponge
Location: Bristol - Gateway to all things good
Hmm, lets think two holes. One small for the big end, a roller bearing that needs only a dribble of oil, and one huge, that is everything else including all plain bearings.

Do we know the size of the big hole? If not, we will not know where we are on the Speed/Pressure/Flow carpet of the pump characteristic.

The other thing is that we are focussing on the amount of oil going to the big end when if we are concerned about the life, we should increase the contact area between moving parts. You have gone some way by increasing the number of rollers but why are we not thinking of a bigger pin like 08/09/10 cranks, with Carrillo rods?

What am I missing?

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 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP TEST RIG
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013 18:36 
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Think Pink
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Current ride: Awesome Ulysses & X1
Location: balderton, newark
off to look at woodys gear mate ,will explian later about 11,30 :shock: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP TEST RIG
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2013 00:40 
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Think Pink
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Joined: 07 Jun 2010 00:37
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Current ride: Awesome Ulysses & X1
Location: balderton, newark
pash wrote:
Hmm, lets think two holes. One small for the big end, a roller bearing that needs only a dribble of oil, and one huge, that is everything else including all plain bearings.

Do we know the size of the big hole? If not, we will not know where we are on the Speed/Pressure/Flow carpet of the pump characteristic.

The other thing is that we are focussing on the amount of oil going to the big end when if we are concerned about the life, we should increase the contact area between moving parts. You have gone some way by increasing the number of rollers but why are we not thinking of a bigger pin like 08/09/10 cranks, with Carrillo rods?

What am I missing?

DUDE just got in from woodys ,if the oil pressure is say 20 PSI ,it don t matter what size any of the holes are ,they are all being fed oil at 20 PSI ,the only thing to bear in mind is hole size will dictate volume deliverd at said PSI ,,,,,,,,,,,,,SO the big crank pin ,,,,,,,,,you put some carrillo rod data on a thread some time ago mate ,von n me are unconcerned at the mo with a bigger crank pin ............beacuse ,prob cost of our crank refurb 350 squid ,add close to 500 squid to the bill for rods and with postge added a bill of around 900 squid .....how many takers you recon mate

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 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP TEST RIG
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2013 06:19 
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proff. patpending
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Current ride: Victoria Sponge
Location: Bristol - Gateway to all things good
So the pump is working at 20psi but as rik has already said, there are loases. The oil pressure at the other side of the filter is lower, the oil pressure at the entry to the pinion end of the crank is lower still, the pressure at the other side of the restriction is even lower and the pressure at the exit of the crank pin is even lower still.

The distribution of oil supplied by the pump is dependent on the losses of each parallel circuit. I am not sure how you will know how much oil is going to the big end.

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 Post subject: Re: OIL PUMP TEST RIG
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2013 09:23 
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Think Pink
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Current ride: Awesome Ulysses & X1
Location: balderton, newark
hear what your saying nick ,to test oil pressure on our buells you take out the oil pressure switch out n plumb a gauge in where it was ,now this is after the oil filter ,so if my understanding is right the oil is now in a common gallery feeding the lifters ,top end,oil jets and and crank ,what ever your pressure reading is at the gauge this common gallery HAS to be at the measured pressure near as dam it ,now after the oil has passed the lifters it may not be at measured presssure or after passing through the 60 thou feed hole in thre end of the crank it may not be at measured pressure ,as i said earlrier in this thread we need to know what king of delivery the big end is getting :yup: :D :D

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