Ordered an engine temperature sensor and new fuel filter (sensor was cheap........not!).So before the bits arrive I want to have the bike ready to put the bits straight on, so where is the temp sensor is this the one beside the plug on the rear head? Just I've read there's one in under the tank as well and it needs removed to change it.

Depends on the year and model .......it is in the rear head but position was changed ...... it is the only thing with a cable attached apart from the spark plug

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2001 X1 2009 1125CR 2006 Uly X3 2010 Uly a fully Maz'd S1 and a 1991 RS1200 Westwind.

Cheers mate beside the plug it is then. That makes it easier!

Logging some data will tell you if the sensor is misbehaving.

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08 Specialized Langster

Well I changed it anyway and guess what it is better but not a lot.
Changed the fuel filter, ran the thing and then checked the plugs which were a good colour.
When it starts it seems to run fine but as soon as its warm its all over the place picks up dies down and then cuts out and wont start when its up to temp.
Quite honestly getting to my wits end as its so frustrating when you dont really know what data is in front of you and what to take from it. Even more annoying as it was ok and I was anal about starting it every couple of weeks. Have to say i think its worse since I put the Force winder on but could be all in the mind!

Any one want to buy an X1

Uhm ,you could check the intake manifold seals first!?

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The sound of a V-twin engine braking is music to my ears!!

you mentioned about a forcewinder been fitted,have you actually ridden the bike so the ecm can make any changes to mods that have fitted during its lay up..needs to be ridden for at least 20 mins at over 2500rpm..HTH

That's maybe a good point mate, it's just the way it's running I reckon it would be a bitch to ride. When I had the spy cable hooked up and it was going between open and closed loop occasionally it would show learning. Sad thing is I ain't got a lot of time to give to it just now and I'd rather get it moted and use it as the weather here is brilliant but you can't have it all eh

well just book the MOT at your preferred garage and ride it to the mot leave early and make sure your make the long route to the garage so it can remap on the way..

Bigpete sent me a couple of logs...

Some interesting stuff. Firstly, the measured temperature (green line):


You can see that as the engine is warming up, we get a delay then a step change by about 11 degrees (from 127 to 138). Bigpete can talk us through the log as to what he was doing and what the engine felt like.

How would that affect the engine? Well, the correction applied at 127 and 138 deg is different by only 1% (yellow line), so I am pretty confident that although the sensor (or harness) looks suspect, it is not enough to upset the engine.

Next, and this is where it gets interesting, I had a quick look at inlet air temperature and we see a step change there too at the same time:


There are no common parts of the harness between these two sensors; the ETS is a resistor between earth (engine) and the ECM, the IAT sensor is a resistor between the sensor earth (Black and White wire) and the ECM. I would therefore think an internal ECM problem, maybe on the 5V regulation, is causing this issue.

The other interesting thing from these plots is that after the last blip of the throttle (7th red peak), the engine is slow to return to idle. This looks like an AFR issue, so either a TPS issue or more likely leaking intake seals leaking. TPS deg at idle is 8.2 deg, which is very high. It should be in the 5s.

What would I do next?

1. Check for intake seal leaks with a propane torch blown (no flame) around the intake manifold
seals.
2. TPS reset.

If that doesn't find the problem, swap out the ECM...

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08 Specialized Langster

Could I get that log, please? For my collection of sensor error logs ...

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"It is often said that before you die your life passes before your eyes. It is in fact true. It's called living."
Terry Pratchett

Only cos it's you...

Feel free to pass further comment...

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08 Specialized Langster

So, Gunter and I have been discussing and he points out that the step change in sensor reading is unlikely to be an internal ECM fault as I suggested, instead it looks like a dropout in data collection. Since I made the cable, I won't be blaming that. Other data that Bigpete sent me doesn't appear to have this dropout.

So, using Gunter's plot he sent me:


we can see that Time also has a step change. Lesson learned for me there...

I believe Bigpete is using PCSpy, and I am not 100% sure how that manages logged data, whether it declares a comms failure or whether it logs data when it is available, however there is a 3 minute loss of data and assuming it logs data when available, that could be any of the following; ECM, harness, cable, PC.

But back to the real issue of the bike not running properly...

Looking at where Pete has set the idle:


With throttle closed, TPS 8 bit is 24, TPS deg is 8.1.

This is consistent with Kevmean's Muffin, but only at a partially open throttle.


However at idle, Kevmean's Muffin is TPS 8 bit 12 and TPE deg is 4.2:


This suggests the TPS reset has been done correctly, but additional throttle is needed to get the bike to tick over, and with the slow return to min idle speed (which is higher with Bigpete's bike), suggests a lean condition.

I have suggested manifold seals (tested with propane around the manifold/head interface), but it could be other things, such as:

* a blocked fuel tank vent - does the engine run OK with the fuel cap off?
* a poorly performing fuel pump - does the bike run OK at wide open throttle?

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08 Specialized Langster

Bloody hell! Do you work for NASA?

Respect..!!