I thought that was the storeman that did that bit

Think you missed the point

I think someone missed the point, that's for sure.

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Good in straight lines
2001 X1 "The Tart's Handbag"
2001 FZS1000 "The Fridge"

I'd say the main difference is the size of the wage packets

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Wear the fox hat

Not really - there are 'levels' of qualification. 'Tree surgeon' is kind of old fashioned term. Arborists is better.
level 1-7

It is this.

In the Uk, as has always been the case, anyone in this sort of area is seen, by the white-trim types, to be plebs.

The Qualification and training sector of the Automotive service sector has been fecked about with so much over the years that qualification can and often do mean little. I know so called qualified Engineers (automotive) who could not change a wheel but I also know so called fitters (qualified to level 1 or 2) who, by practical learning and natural bent can rebuild, repair and modify for better effect anything!
The problem is qualifications do not prove competence, but there is now light at the end of the tunnel. There is now a proof of competence exam call ATA (Automotive Technician Award). There is a load of them at different levels and they involve 5 or 6 PRACTICAL tests and 1 multi-guess. Its pass or fail and no fecking folder building etc.
Turn up and prove it!
For example for the car side there is "service technician", "diagnostic Technician" and "master technician". Each have pre-requisites.
The pre-requisites are not just qualifications but time served as well, no qual's means more time served required. The “licence” you get has to be renewed every 5 years (or it may be 3?) and it goes with the man not the garage.

Its a start to get round a buggers mess brought about by the loss of proper apprenticeships. My apprenticeship lasted 5 years made up of 2 days and at least 1 night a week at college and working 4 days (every Saturday and some Sundays).
Those where the days!
I could go on but now I am bored.

spanner in the works

Chris Watts AAE MIMI

Well put Sir. I think that you have just about said all that is needed.

I also served a five year apprenticeship as a Machine Tool Fitter completing a module controlled course run by the Engineering Industries Training Board (EITB).
I spent five years at Guildford Tech (days and evenings) obtaining first an ONC and then an HNC in Mechanical Production Engineering.
Many of the skills I learned are sadly now redundant (who needs hand scraped bearings?) but it did teach me the virtue of patience and tenacity to do the job right. I'm a competent machinist (milling, turning, Surface and cylindrical Grinding) as well as Mig and Tig welding and ran my own machine shop employing 11 people for 12 years.
I've moved on and now I build Special Purpose machines which incorporate control systems from Allen Bradley, Mitsubishi etc and Festo Devicenet/Profibus integrated systems using Staubli robots amongst others.We also use automated inspection systems (AIS) that encompass the lastest vision/camera technologies.
I'm also trained as a pneumatic technician by Festo. Everything we do is bespoke and we integrate new ideas and technologies, as they become available. I do truly still learn something new every day.
I still use a mill and lathe almost daily.
Am I an Engineer?

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I started out with nothing and still got most of it left.

You're a Fire Eater

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If your dreams don't scare you, they are not big enough.

.....Yes, but given the choice, I prefer pussy.

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I started out with nothing and still got most of it left.

Wouldn't the Parafin makes it sting a bit

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If your dreams don't scare you, they are not big enough.

Why? has it gone up in price?

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I started out with nothing and still got most of it left.

I don't care so much what letters a mechanic has after his name as long as he (or she) talks about spannering with an almost religious reverence in their voice that can only come out of some time spent fettling charismatic (usually older ) machinery.

Some 'engineers' have plenty of academic knowledge, but little feel for actually putting stuff together.

I knew a fitter once.