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 Post subject: Choices, Choices!
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010 11:16 
pash wrote:
But a TGI Friday Fueller wont address differences in requirements for front and rear fuelling which your headers are causing.

As for no experience on 08 engines, not quite true, however the method of change implementation is the same, regardless of the year of Buell...

As for a home remedy, I challenge you to find a solution that is better...

As for the dyno telling you if the bike is running rich or lean, you will not be able to tell. The rear could be running super rich and the front lean, and you would never know...


Well then maybe I should just sell up cause it's all depressing me! Warranty is shite, alot of flack from this forum = shite and bike needs adjusting with no avenue of support.

But having had texts to and throw with "bigcury", remember him? He had 2008 xb with same exhaust. Well he says the tfi did help! Now I havnt fitted one so I'm only passing on info. I did fit the powerizer and that did help also but there were fundamental problems with the bike at the time that it obviously could not fix.

Twin motorcycles is saying his new map is perfect for my setup! I don't have the time for a home fix, desire or knowledge! Seems sensible to seek professionals who will do something to help!

Tubbs is saying he doesn't know enough about tuning 2008 onwards bikes either so my options are very limited and I'm perhaps regretting buying a Buell!


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 Post subject: Choices, Choices!
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010 11:42 
aks12rrrrr wrote:
spen wrote:
Just saw this topic and got all excited, I thought it said 'Choc ices, choc ices....'


hmmmm....choooooooocolate....

Maybe we should cover my bike in chocolate and sell it at a fondu party?


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 Post subject: Re: Choices, Choices!
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010 12:24 
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Joined: 06 May 2009 14:34
Posts: 450
Current ride: push
ph4824 wrote:
aks12rrrrr wrote:
spen wrote:
Just saw this topic and got all excited, I thought it said 'Choc ices, choc ices....'


hmmmm....choooooooocolate....

Maybe we should cover my bike in petrol, set fire to it and have a party?



fixed.

_________________
I intend to live forever.....................................so far, so good!


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 Post subject: Re: Choices, Choices!
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010 12:43 
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Choices, Choices!
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010 13:36 
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has it got a pulse?
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Joined: 06 May 2009 15:47
Posts: 2565
Current ride: FUBAR...Enough said!
Location: Reading
PH, welding on an additional sensor is actually a very simple task for a welder, it could even be made to look standard and be well enough hidden so that it's almost invisible when the bike/zorst is re-assembled. The difference in running temps between front and rear pots can be quite alot, the additional sensor makes perfect sense if you are after the perfect running Buell.
I'd give it more thought if I was you. ;)

_________________
FUBAR pilot

You only need two bikes in life-an S1 and a Multistrada!


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 Post subject: Re: Choices, Choices!
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010 13:49 
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proff. patpending
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Joined: 06 May 2009 20:20
Posts: 14705
Current ride: Victoria Sponge
Location: Bristol - Gateway to all things good
ph4824 wrote:
pash wrote:
But a TGI Friday Fueller wont address differences in requirements for front and rear fuelling which your headers are causing.

As for no experience on 08 engines, not quite true, however the method of change implementation is the same, regardless of the year of Buell...

As for a home remedy, I challenge you to find a solution that is better...

As for the dyno telling you if the bike is running rich or lean, you will not be able to tell. The rear could be running super rich and the front lean, and you would never know...


Well then maybe I should just sell up cause it's all depressing me! Warranty is shite, alot of flack from this forum = shite and bike needs adjusting with no avenue of support.

But having had texts to and throw with "bigcury", remember him? He had 2008 xb with same exhaust. Well he says the tfi did help! Now I havnt fitted one so I'm only passing on info. I did fit the powerizer and that did help also but there were fundamental problems with the bike at the time that it obviously could not fix.

Twin motorcycles is saying his new map is perfect for my setup! I don't have the time for a home fix, desire or knowledge! Seems sensible to seek professionals who will do something to help!

Tubbs is saying he doesn't know enough about tuning 2008 onwards bikes either so my options are very limited and I'm perhaps regretting buying a Buell!


Get a Twin Motorcycles ECM or a TFI then if you think a "professional" solution is what you need, but I will bet you 50p you are still not satisfied.

And before you diss the forum, bear in mind that many people have invested a lot of time trying to help you...

I am very willing to help you, but unfortunately, it is not the kind of help you want...

_________________
08 Specialized Langster


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 Post subject: Choices, Choices!
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010 14:15 
I've always been grateful in genuine helpful replies, I've also contributed enormously by seeing things through at every stage and it should be of some help to others not to mention changing headers photos and the crap i had to take for that (which was your idea) but it's the other crap I've had to put up with that lead me to post what I did! Seems any old Tom, dick or Harry can voice their opinions on me and seem supported, I voice my reaction (not now but other times) and get a grilling! What I said still stands!

Regarding your help offered, sorry, don't mean to be ungrateful but welding parts to my headers is not for me, but I see your point! My view is that these headers were designed for my bike, therefore it should work without welding extra bits on.


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 Post subject: Re: Choices, Choices!
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010 14:28 
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I'd rather race a Honda 90

Joined: 08 May 2009 08:31
Posts: 3137
Location: Rhodesia.
ph4824 wrote:
I've always been grateful in genuine helpful replies, I've also contributed enormously by seeing things through at every stage and it should be of some help to others not to mention changing headers photos and the crap i had to take for that (which was your idea) but it's the other crap I've had to put up with that lead me to post what I did! Seems any old Tom, dick or Harry can voice their opinions on me and seem supported, I voice my reaction (not now but other times) and get a grilling! What I said still stands!

Regarding your help offered, sorry, don't mean to be ungrateful but welding parts to my headers is not for me, but I see your point! My view is that these headers were designed for my bike, therefore it should work without welding extra bits on.



Owning a Buell is a bit like having hair, you need to comb it to keep it nice......

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Spencer Racing... www.spencerracing.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Choices, Choices!
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010 14:30 
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Joined: 06 May 2009 14:19
Posts: 1356
Current ride: Cagiva Raptor 650
Location: Scottish Borders
Personally I don't see why you re-fitted the exhaust which obviously caused your bike to run like crap.
As for re-using a fucked gasket you are asking for problems.

_________________
Norrie.


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 Post subject: Choices, Choices!
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010 14:38 
norrie wrote:
Personally I don't see why you re-fitted the exhaust which obviously caused your bike to run like crap.
As for re-using a fucked gasket you are asking for problems.


I see it as troubleshooting. Bike running problems were corrected and I wanted to have my exhaust on.

Gasket, I agree


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 Post subject: Re: Choices, Choices!
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010 14:42 
:yt:
the headers and exhaust caused you problems 1st time round. Did they not?
Then why go through the hassle of reffiting them. If I was you I would admit defeat put your original headers back on sell all the free spirits stuff and buy a stealth or Remus.


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 Post subject: Re: Choices, Choices!
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010 16:29 
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proff. patpending
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Joined: 06 May 2009 20:20
Posts: 14705
Current ride: Victoria Sponge
Location: Bristol - Gateway to all things good
ph4824 wrote:
I've always been grateful in genuine helpful replies, I've also contributed enormously by seeing things through at every stage and it should be of some help to others not to mention changing headers photos and the crap i had to take for that (which was your idea) but it's the other crap I've had to put up with that lead me to post what I did! Seems any old Tom, dick or Harry can voice their opinions on me and seem supported, I voice my reaction (not now but other times) and get a grilling! What I said still stands!

Regarding your help offered, sorry, don't mean to be ungrateful but welding parts to my headers is not for me, but I see your point! My view is that these headers were designed for my bike, therefore it should work without welding extra bits on.


PH, the worst thing you can do on this forum is respond defensively, or even aggresively, to the ribbing and jibes dished out on the forum. Once you do, you are seen as fair game and a target of opportunity.

When I used to ask dumb questions, and from time to time I still do, I was (and am) ribbed, but I learned not to react, otherwise my threads would never yield the answers I wanted.

Anyway, to come back to your options in order of preference:

1. Map your bike
2. Fit an off the shelf set of maps (TM)
3. Fit a fueller

The first is the best and this applies to both your own ECM or an EBR Racing one, but to do this, you need to know what is going on in each cylinder, and you can only do this by understanding the AFR from the individual exhaust streams, i.e. put two lambda bosses on (or add sample ports - but they don't lend themselves to logging and mapping)

The second is an easy solution, someone else has done the above job, not sure how well they will have done it, but they will have done it all the same. The only issue with this is that the map may not address the problems you want to fix, i.e. the popping on the decel, the lumpy idle, cos at the end of the day, one man's meat is another man's poison. Some people like popping decels, some people like lumpy idles etc. Anyway, the other risk is that the map has been created on a bike which is not identical to yours...

The third is using a sledge hammer to crack a nut. The fuellers available for Buells, apart from maybe the PCV for 1125 (which should work on yours anyway), will not allow you to alter front and rear maps, instead only allowing a blanket map for front and rear, which is not going to give you the optimum maps. Besides, without understanding the individual cylinder AFRs, you cannot even optimise the PCV to work with your bike. And as Gunter pointed out, the fueller is not going to address lumpy idles and popping on the over-run.

If you don't want to do 1, The way forward has to be 2.

I have no more to say on this subject, except that you are missing a great opportunity in not lobbying FS or Trojan to help out with a set of slave Aero 45 primaries.

_________________
08 Specialized Langster


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 Post subject: Re: Choices, Choices!
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010 17:43 
losttyke wrote:
:yt:
the headers and exhaust caused you problems 1st time round. Did they not?
Then why go through the hassle of reffiting them. If I was you I would admit defeat put your original headers back on sell all the free spirits stuff and buy a stealth or Remus.


What makes you think the FS stuff was the cause? I'm convinced it wasn't, HD don't know what the problem really was, but some people on this forum who have never seen or ridden or worked on my bike seem to know everything! Amazing!! I will admit defeat if I find the FS exhaust is not compatible but I'm not there yet! I'm still a believer :old:


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 Post subject: Re: Choices, Choices!
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010 18:08 
pash wrote:
you are missing a great opportunity in not lobbying FS or Trojan to help out with a set of slave Aero 45 primaries.


Who are Free Spirits?? cause I can't find these people!!!!!!!!
Trojen wont offer anything to me for free, I've already asked for a tfi to test but he's not interested, and to be honest why should he?

I think it's a bit one sided if you are saying let people take the piss but don't retaliate!

I've read everything you've posted on this subject and grateful to you, I think I'm starting to see what you are talking about but I still can't get my head around the fact that these exhausts were designed for my bike so why don't they work 100% instead of 95%? It's important to get all sides of the argument!

Trojen says this...
As for ECU's . It really is a matterof personal prefernce and some people are happy with 'add on' tuners whilst others want fuill ECU tunes. I have always had good results with the Powerizer/TFi on mostBuells nad Power Commander on other bikes, so have always shied away from full ECU tunes that can be difficult or impossible to return to stock if required.

You will pretty much always get asome popping on the overrun with aftermarket pipes, especially something as free flowing as the Free SPirist system you have. It will also be a little lumpier than stock simply because it is tuning for power at particular revs (mid range to top end) so bottom end can suffer. I don't think you will ever get it to idel or run at slow speed like a stock bike regardless of ECU changes because it isn't designed to run like stock but to increase power where it is needed furter into the rev range.


Dris (Twin Motorcycles) says...
I always First Mount the setup you run on the same bike here and then make a fuelmap especially for that setup. In your specific case I don’t have a setup, but is scheduled in july to make. And yes, for the first time in your live after my ecm update, your bike will run like it should be very very nice smooth and no popping.

EBR says...
The programmable ECM provides full access to all aspects of the fueling maps. With proper calibration work, the decel popping can be eliminated. Yes the fan on/off strategy can be altered to your liking. If the current calibration is not optimum it could cause the issues you describe as “lumpy”.

I apologize we don’t have a preprogrammed ECM for the free spirits yet, but the fully programmable kit can get you there with a proper amount of time on the dyno and a knowledgeable tuner.


Pash says (to sum up)...
You need to add lamba sensor to the front header to be able to measure and remap accordingly for both cylinders, everything else will not resolve the issues!


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 Post subject: Re: Choices, Choices!
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2010 18:43 
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Joined: 06 May 2009 13:55
Posts: 753
Location: This side of the sheugh
I fitted a Micron serpent to my XT along with a Kitech fueller, the bike ran like shit and kept throwing up a fault. I asked for advice on here, both Pash and Matt recommended fitting a lambda sensor on the front header, this was duly done and the bike has been running like a dream (no popping and no lumpiness) since with no further mods, job done.

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Ulster By Birth Crabbit Old Git By The Grace Of God
2003 XB9s
2007 STT
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