Excellent. Good start



And this is cool too, cos you have the ECM maps which should go with the exhaust



Not sure what that is. Are they vibrations or a hesitancy? I find the standard headers always have a hesitancy around 3000, my Firebolt doesn't but that has a Ti Force, but the Uly seemed a little hesitant there. When the weather is better I will have another play around that area, but I normally tend to ride at lower RPMs than that.



Well, this is quite interesting and something I have not really had time to play with. The rules for ignition timing are that:

Increase speed -> Increase advance
Close the throttle -> Increase advance
Run leaner -> Increase advance

So, if the optimum ignition timing at 3000 rpm is 33 deg, like the race maps, I would expect to see that advance increase at lower throttle openings. If you look at what the ignition curves look like on the tubers...

viewtopic.php?p=200998#p200998

...at WOT throttle, the Q curve, page 47, has 6 deg less advance than part throttle (I don't believe the true values). If you look at the Dyna2000 adjustable, depending on the curve you have a difference between 7 and 12 deg. The tuber timing is controlled by the VOES which is operational when the throttle is partially closed and gets your fuel consumption down. With your race maps, the difference between 255 and 0 is inconsistent, which makes me think that someone did a few spot points and didn't tidy stuff up...



The real answer is to spend time on the dyno and do part throttle roll ons. You want to minimise advance as you want to limit the amount of burning before the piston reaches top dead centre.



That is a good question. You are a bit limited in what you can do as you have no idea what the front cylinder is doing... but you could do... The DDFI-3 supports two narrowband sensors, so you could get a boss welded on the front and you could correct closed loop... And better still, and I am here cos you have inputs for wideband sensors on DDFI-3 so you can log, with a Palm and Bluetooth (my current favourite combination) and nothing else. You just need some WB sensors with a 0-5V output.

But back to your question, you could set your closed loop area to cover the whole map and set up to an EGO of 100%, then set it back to how it was. Your OL WOT factor will then set it to 110% (lambda 0.9) which will give you best power.



Your Open Loop Learn will increase the AFV a notch if you run lean for 3 seconds or so (I would have to check the numbers).

But, a big , great to have you aboard.

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08 Specialized Langster

Thanks for the reply Pash!

Answering to your questions, I feel the vibs in the footpegs (they tickle my feets ) and handlebar, they are more noticiable when the fuel tank is near to be empty... they are there around 3000rpm and they dissapear at 4000rpm. I'll try to use both the stock BUE2D (with the bottom line adjusted to avoid popping) and also the one that Gunter posted. I'll let you know.


I though the same...

Regarding the dyno, we found one here but is quite expenssive. I'm not a quick rider so I don't care too much if the bike doesn't lift the front wheel but I want to be sure not to break the motor and have a response as smooth as possible. The other problem is that I don't have space/tools to change headers myself, so welding new boses, etc... is also expensive, but concerning the WB, is it possible to connect it directly to the ECM or you need a controller? is the ECM capable to function either with a NB or a WB?

One last question, to make all the map close loop, should I change the table that stablishs the boundaries (low and high)? or there is a easier way? should I leave the AFV learning boundaires the same?

Thanks man great to be here!

As I mentioned earlier, the general rule of thumb is that as you close the throttle, ignition advance should increase.

Looking at your maps, you appear to get toe-tickle action with a more advanced ignition timing; this assumes you are at cruise and hence between 21 and 30 TPS. This goes against the thoughts for optimum ignition timing. As an aside the pre-08 models typically have the same ignition timing as the race maps you posted, i.e. about 35 deg BTDC compared to your 30 deg BTDC.



The DDFI3 ECM has dedicated 0-5V inputs that can be used for WB O2 sensors, Grey 1 and Grey 33. These are available in the logged data.



You can leave the AFV learning boundaries the same, but move the CL and OL boundaries to 255. It is not a perfect solution as:
1. You are only really mapping the rear cylinder
2. You could do with a bit more ignition advance as you will be running 10% leaner than the bike will be set up to run at when you bring the boundaries back down

The fact that there are OL and WOT corrections set to 105 and 110% suggest that the original maps were set up like this and that the original maps, with no corrections applied, should see you running at stoichiometric everywhere.

As an aside, there are some interesting pictures on the IDS website:

http://www.intelligentdesignsolutionsin ... o_area.htm

These guys did the DDFI3 ECM for Erik, you can see the slave lambda bosses on the headers on the Firebolt for fuelling setup.

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08 Specialized Langster

Thanks for the reply Pash.

I think I'll do a first change to the CL maps with the logged information. I'll log again to see changes and after that will log with all CL. I think of making % changes on both maps, I hope that the relation between the rear and front map will remain (I know this is impossible, but...)

Regarding ignition map, I don't really know what to do. As you said the only way to be sure is expending time on Dyno, will see. I've noticed a great change in ignition maps from the pre-2008 to the post-2008, I don't know if the reason could be emission controls, the change from DDFI2 to DDFI3 (so now we have Load instead of TPS) or other things. I'll try with the stock one and the german one and try to "feel" the differences

Could you let me know where could I find info for using WB sensor in the bike? you said that we have free slots in the ECM to read a WB sensor, but we'll need also the NB so the ECM knows waht is happening? or could we conect directly the WB to the NB pin?

So other adjustments that I've seen in other ECM:

The first one is similar to the one that Gunter posted in the How To. And is related to changes in the deceleration boundaries. I've noticed that differnce between a stock and a Race ECM (pre-2008) as this:

FUNCTION: Table: Deceleration Correction Region

RACE
Index RPM PercenIndex

4 3000 23
3 2950 19
2 1650 19
1 1600 0

STOCK
Index RPM Percent

4 3000 23
3 2950 19
2 1400 19
1 1350 0

The second thing is in the DDFI3 that many ECM are modify in the air temperature correction creating one value that is near to the "usual" air temperaure range:

FUNCTION: Table: Air Temperature Correction

STOCK BUE2D
Index Degrees C Percent

7 125.000 68
6 100.000 74
5 75.000 82
4 50.000 95
3 25.000 100
2 0.000 110
1 -40.000 125

MODIFY
Index Degrees C Percent

7 125.000 85
6 75.000 92
5 50.000 98
4 38.000 100
3 25.000 100
2 0.000 110
1 -40.000 125

Thanks

A quick reply. The WB sensors are not used for control, just for logging, so you will only see them in your logs.

Careful with the air temperature correction as the sensor may not be reading real air temperature. If your AFV changes a lot with day temperature then that will tell you the look up table is wrong. The bottom line is that:
* The airbox sits above the engine
* The engine is hot
* Heat rises (convection)
* The airbox is black
* Black attracts heat (radiation)
* The air filter is clamped to the airbox base (conduction)
* The temperature sensor protrudes through the airbox base

What I am saying is the the air flowing over the temperature sensor will not be at a representative or average temperature, and also that the filter heats up as a result of the hot airbox base and us cooled by the air being sucked into the engine (which heats the air up).

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08 Specialized Langster

Thanks Pash!

From your email I suppose that I should block EGO and AFV and just install WB sensorl in the same place as the NB and connect it to another pin? sorry for all the questions

I know that we should be carefull with changes in air temperature tables but I've seen this table in many ECM and all of them work great. And yes, air temperature read is affected of all that things. At the end should adjust the air density that is entering the motor. During my last log (august, Madrid, you imagine) I logged air temperatures (MAT) from 36 to 56 ºC.

Thanks for the replies!